This was meant to happen… supply has gone higher. Not because we know there are more but because there have been several copies being sold in the past 24 months. I think it’s a fair price for both, buyer and seller. It will be interesting to see what other copies will sell for in the future 
It probably had something to do with the listing being literally and figuratively shady. No one is going to drop 10k+ on a one grainy photo of and ungraded illustrator.
the other listings of the illustrators were not less shady in my opinion… Apart from those of the seller who had 3 copies… those were nice photos and so on but the rest of the illustrator auctions looked pretty much the same
1 Like
Yes, the ones with nice photos both ended over 10k.
The one I bought didn’t have a good photo and it wasn’t until they provided others that I bought it. Oh and I beat another buyer to the card when they added additional pictures.
Yes but most high-end auctions are shady on YJ and everyone knows it. Plus the seller had a lot of feedback. We’ve seen Illustrators being auctioned by sellers with less than 10 feedbacks
Definitely! That is why you can get one at a better price there. Majority of the people buying high end cards want one thing, continuity. The most asked question I received when JP-juns ungraded illustrator was on eBay was, “is that a real/legit copy?”.
I bid $1,500 on an illustrator auction of the same quality as the one that just ended on YJ! back in 2009. Turns out I bid $1,500 for a stock photo of an illustrator. Quality of an auction does wonders for its ending price.
What? If this were any other card you wouldn’t speculate on this level. If this were a rayquaza gold star listed the exact same way it would be obvious why the card ended lower than normal.
The listing quality was poor. The card was not mint. The description said bid at your own risk as the card is not new/mint. Exactly like plenty of gold stars that people don’t bid on because the condition is not mint.
What actual illustrator auction like this do the Japanese normally bid on? The one that was listed awhile back that mike owns now had people retracting/withholding bids because of its condition. I was literally warned by noppin when I inquired about making a deposit for the card.
You cant compare a price drop of $4-5k to a gold star selling $30-40 cheaper than its market price.
Every japanese auction has the same warning in the description even if its out the pack or in a case. Even the pika ring with case on YJ has it written.
I was watching the auction as I have all previous one and the bidding was going up in 2000 yen every minute as before in illustrator auction people were bidding 50k every other minute during the last hour. People werent going all out for this and it could be due to the reason you stated or the fact its print amount is more know.
The blog that showed the print limits in Japan is probably one of the most read ones in the japanese pokemon community so im pretty sure thats has affected it aswell.
1 Like
That is pure speculation. The point about the gold stars was to provide a less biased approach as you obviously are trying to make your opinion stick without any evidence.
If you look at past auctions, none of this description or quality ended with a good price. Remember how we all were appropriately speculative about the shoe sellers illustrator because of the poor photos? It was re-listed numerous times without any action. Within 30 minutes of them putting up good pictures the card sold and had other buyers after it.
Also, not every auction says the card is not “new”. That is only present on auctions that are not mint. Mint cards will be advertised as new/beauty goods. This one clearly stated it was not, like many gold stars that end at a lower price.
And you are going to completely ignore what I said about noppin warning me about condition? The most reasonable answer is just that, a reasonable one. Not trying to make speculation happen without any evidence. You can do passive aggressive down talk of the card, that is fine, but making claims on why it ended without doing the normal deductions as anyone would for any other card is foolish.
Law of supply and demand. That’s all I have to say.
How many illustrators are available? How exactly is the demand changing? Because a 16-17 year old article was “published”? That doesn’t change the supply. The supply didn’t change because some guy blogged about an old article.
The anti-illustrator speculation needs to be based on actually quantifiable evidence. Not generic phrases and passive aggressive speculative down talk.
Im not saying the demand is going down because of the article as this would be speculation. But I’m saying the supply is higher. We have seen several illustrators in the past 2 years.
You are correct Geri. However, the prices have increased as well with the supply. Which is probably why more are surfacing, prices are increasing, demand is increasing. This providing an incentive to list the card as they are actually, consistently selling above 10k.
The current average price on an illustrator is higher than when the supply was lower in 2011. I bought my first illustrator (2011) for much less than my second. The illustrator I first purchased was the only one available for years. That one copy literally traded hands 4 times in 2 years.
Well if you read my response it clearly says ‘could be’ im not saying that it IS the reason for the low price. Its all speculation as no one can prove why it ended low everyone has their opinion to why it happened your reason is down to the listing wheras as my bet would have been due to the update knowledge we have on the card.
Your noppin incident was for a seperate illustator so no point discussing how that affects the price of this one unless there is evidence to back it up.
As for cards being mint im pretty sure you have said plenty of time the rareity of the card will overshadow the quality of the card within reason of course so it not being mint will deter people from bidding high? If I had the cash I would be bidding on that no doubt and the quality wouldnt have really bothered me unless there creases etc but minimal whitening is expected with the cards age.
Your argument is aimed more at me than the actual card.
I am using the same logic everyone uses with every other card. The gold star example, for hopefully the final time, was in reference to how people do not bid as high because of condition. There was a listing for a rayquaza 1st gold star that said “not mint” and it ended lower than one which was mint.
Also, the point about noppin warning me about bidding, again, is quantifiable evidence towards the card. People actually, in real life, which is documented by noppin, were not bidding because of the condition. Pointing out how people did not actually bid on an illustrator because of its condition. Dismissing the general speculative claim you made about how japanese “normally” bid.
If I said that rarity is more important than condition, it is for me, in context to what I was referring to. Pulling it out of context is again, not proving anything, and more specifically, you are talking about me, not the card. Most importantly, everyone on this planet who collects pays more for a mint example of something, myself included. Again, quantifiable evidence by doing a quick ebay search comparing mint cards to not mint cards.
Also, if you want my opinion on the price, I am nowhere near worried. I can afford to sit on my illustrators for life (hopefully a long fruitful life). Which is why I bought it, because I can actually afford to keep it. I am not worried because the average price has increased over the years. The actual sale price of the card of what it actually sells for is higher than what it actually sold for before in the past, before the old article was “published”.
And if you want to read through the thousands of messages I have received in regards to the illustrator, including an invite to do a radio interview yesterday, which I am on the fence about, you can get a better understanding of the actual demand for that card. Or, we could speculate how a blog about a 16 year old article changed everything. Even though a couple years ago when that blog did not have the article published, the illustrator was selling for much less…
1 Like
If you used another trophy card to compare I would understand but you know aswell as I do why gold stars in less than mint condition arent going for as much as mint copies ( PSA/quick money etc etc)
Il tell you from personal experience any middleman does not give a sh*t what condition the card is in once you place the bid. The only reason they probably warned you was that he might have had a record of dodgy transaction not sending items etc which would cause noppin trouble which they can do without. So they are better off you not bidding than them having a problem to deal with for no reason.
I had edited my post before you replied as I thought it wasnt worth it.
Im going to stop replying as discussing this here as it isnt the place and I see this going on for a few pages at this rate.
1 Like
The gold star was chosen as an example to illustrate how normally people would not speculate this much on why something ended a bit lower than normal. Normally, people would deduce the auction and cards quality before taking that next step and speculating what exterior influences made this card sell for slightly less.
The middle man situation was definitely not because of the sellers integrity, or lack thereof. In fact, it was one of the better displayed auctions, but did not have a photo of the back of the card. Also, when you say that middle men companies do not give a crap about condition, what are you basing that off of?
And if you want an example of a trophy cards not selling as high because of condition, the sun faded pikachu trophy. Also, an even better example, which I previously mentioned was the shoe seller. We all appropriately criticized the shoe sellers illustrator when the auction was originally listed with a stock photo. Then, they put a low quality image up, still no buyers. Re-listed for months, nothing. Within 30 minutes of adding a clear shot of the front and back, that card was gone with the wind, with people in line waiting.
I don’t mind having a discussion, in fact I enjoy it. This site is a wealth of knowledge because of discussion happening. However, we need to make sure it is actually quantifiable. If we state opinions or claims without evidence, people have the right to question. Especially people who are willingly shelling out tons of specific experience and knowledge on the exact item, for free.
Just one thing I’d like to add to the discussion: an invitation to radio interview or thousands of messages on ebay has nothing to do with the actual demand. The demand is simply defined by how many people of the thousands that messaged you are actually interested as well as capable of paying thousands of dollars for the Illustrator. Most who messaged about the illustrator have no knowledge about pokemon and neither does the radio station.
Interested/demand, that was the point in referencing it. I am well aware that every person inquiring cannot afford the card or is serious about the card. I am also well aware that majority of the illustrators you see available exist primarily because of the fanfare my auction received.
Demand was created from the publicity. In fact, the blog guy posted because of the demand from my auction. I believe he literally said something directly about how I need to lower the price because of what he wrote. Also, most importantly, in regards to serious buyers, I could of pulled the trigger on many actual deals. However, I am looking for the right buyer, not a buyer. Which is why I emphasized how I can afford to hold the card. I enjoy discussion, but speculation without some sort of quantifiable evidence is not sound discussion. Especially when ignoring other relevant variables that are quantifiable.
Normally, people would see the recent auction and say, “yeah it wasn’t mint” or “there wasn’t even a photo of the back of the card” and not think twice about what it earned. That would be the general reaction. However, because everyone wants an illustrator, and of course everyone wants one for as little as possible, we have emotions entering and start speculating why the card ended the way it did, instead of doing the normal deductions we would on any other auction.