Respectful Discussion on UPCCC Giveaways/Pkmn Giveaways

DISCLAIMER: This post contains an opinion. This opinion may be different from yours, which I respect as well. It is not meant as a personal attack, condemnation, or anything against anyone. Just my thinking, please, feel free to agree or disagree. I figured I should post this in a separate thread to avoid cluttering up the current giveaway thread. So, onward!

Giveaways are amazing. I mean, who doesn’t love free stuff? As a YouTuber, I have done a couple giveaways myself and I enjoy doing it and rewarding my subscribers who watch my videos with some cool stuff. Although I am not a member of other Pokemon communities like instagram and such, to the best of my knowledge, giveaways occur there as well.

The UPCCC Giveaways we are having are like Youtube giveaways on steroids. We’ve had some super epic stuff, from booster boxes to PSA 10 cards to sweet older cards. The first 2 giveaways were posted in the Insider Bureau, only to be seen by members of the UPCCC. I really liked this because it meant that only active members who joined for reasons other than the giveaway would be able to enter. In short, you were rewarded for being an active member. The new giveaway is in the General Board, visible to all, even non-members.

In order to properly express my frustration with the current giveaway, I suppose I’d need to talk about what the UPCCC means to me. It’s like a safe haven, away from the idiocy of Youtube comments, the business/open everything mentality of many larger Pokemon channels, and all other stuff that generally makes Pokemon less fun. This forum is where great people come together for one reason, which I think is fantastic. Everyone here genuinely wants to add something to the discussion (most of the time). All of you are great.

Perhaps I’m overreacting with something as little as the placement of a thread, but it is important to me. I feel as if giveaways can (sometimes, not all the time) attract the wrong type of member, someone who is only in it for the chance to win some free stuff. Now I totally understand that the whole point of giveaways is that everyone gets the same chance to win, but something like this just doesn’t feel right to me.

All these are screenshots of entrants into the current giveaway. It just doesn’t feel right to me that a person with 1 post (in the giveaway thread) should be given the same chance to win as someone with hundreds or even thousands of posts. I’ve blacked out the avatars because this is not about the people at all, just the principle.

As I was saying, I think giveaways can and do attract the wrong type of person. I get a good amount of youtube comments asking when my next giveaway will be, can I have this, can you give away that, etc., etc. I really don’t like it and I wish said people would not follow my channel, because I feel as if they are only there for the giveaways. I would hate to see something like that happen to the UPCCC, where we end up with bunch of members who are only here for the chance to win free stuff.

I made my thoughts known in the current giveaway thread (albeit much less long-winded) and I got a courteous response from Charlie stating the reasons why the thread would not be moved. One of the reasons was growth of the forum. From experience with Youtube, I can definitely say that giveaways lead to growth. Whether or not that growth is good, I’m not so sure. I think that letting new members find the forum and join because of non-giveaway reasons would make the forum a better place. To me, giveaways seem like a slightly artificial way of increasing awareness and exposure. I do totally accept that some random person could find this forum via the giveaway thread, join so they can enter, realize that the forum is the best thing since Japanese card quality, and become a fantastic member. If I can accept that, then you should also be able to accept that someone searching the web for “pokemon giveaway” could come across this, join and enter, and only ever post in giveaway threads with no intention of contributing whatsoever to discussions. IMO, there will be more of the second type.

Now I don’t expect any action on this or anything. The mods say the thread is viewable to all, and so it is. That decision is made. I suppose I would just like to say that for any future giveaways, I think they should all be posted in the Insider Bureau.


I understand your point, but the right give away open to the public could attract additional members. More members can add to discussions and knowledge. I think the Bandit Ring box may have been a better open to public prize.

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Valid argument :blush:

But maybe we will attract some people who will contribute greatly in the future! Everyone has to start out somewhere :blush:


I don’t ever expect to win anything but believe that you really need to be putting into a community before you expect to get physical rewards.

I only really joined here to get advice and learn tips from all of you on how to be more efficient as a collector. I’ve learnt a ton already and can’t thank you all enough.

It would be super disappointing in my eyes if someone who only joined for the sole purpose of winning these cards won. If someone who is an avid collector, who lurks and just can’t afford some of these fantastic prizes won, that would be great.

As potts said, we all start somewhere. =)


I’m sitting on the fence on this topic, both sides each have their pros and cons and both have valid points… I do agree however that it isn’t cool for people to join just for the give always and purely nothing else, but hey you can’t stop people from doing it, that kinda stuff is inevitable…

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Maybe one entry per number of posts up to 100 maximum.

Me 100 entry’s.
Lurker with just one post…one entry.
Someone with 60 posts…60 entry’s.

Make any sense?

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Totally 100% agree with you on this Ethan, Again and I’ll recite what the others above me mentioned was the goal of the giveaway, Yes the admin team here did mention that the giveaway was a little over the top when pott decided he wanted to add more to the lot, To be fair we intended for the lot to have a huge take home prize on purpose, yes the goal is to overall increase our current members population and site visit metrics aka organic traffic. Hosting a giveaway is a huge viable tool that is available to us to make those numbers increase. In the grand scheme of things we’re helping re-vamp the site in hopes to draw more traffic in, re-brand the name, and create a different design. This allows us to really get our name out there and opens opportunities for partnerships with other “poke sites.” Moving forward the next giveaways will not be as lavish as the current one as the intent is to draw a huge amount of people in. If we get 100 new members who sign up tomorrow because they like the idea of what UPCCC stands for and if only 5 of them stay I’ll still be happy with that at the end of the day, that just means we would have more friends and more pools of knowledge here. Again this is just my opinion on why.

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Gary that is a great idea. or even 1 entry per 100 post!

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Not inevitable but gotta say adding tons of restrictions for giveaways takes all the fun from it.

Don’t like the suggestion that gives more entries for raffle based on post count. 1 per user is enough. :blush:

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Maybe like a 15 post count minimum to enter? That stops people from literally just making the account to make the post in the giveaway thread as these are the people likely to, if they win, just get the prize and never post on the forum again, if they have 25 posts, even if they make the account specifically to post in the giveaway thread it still forces them to have a look round for a few days whilst adding to threads by getting their post count up, hopefully with the type attitude that we are looking for to join up and stay!

Just a side note as I didn’t wanna post in the giveaway twice in case it messed up, @pottsinator @thorgene you guys are way too kind for doing this,hopefully I can add to one in the future to show my appreciation for the UPCCC as a whole!


I am so glad that this was posted, because I think that it opens the door for a lot of critical discussion points to be made, as these are defined intersectionalities within the UPCCC culture that each individual may or may not be aware of. So if you would hear me out, I’m going to break down a ton of stuff right here for you all. :blush:

In the earliest days of UPCCC, the forum was private. It was created as a getaway. A private abode to discuss, in detail and at length, anything on the minds of collectors that were known to be high tier. It was a community driven by the need for a safe place for advanced, adult discussion on a hobby that people had a lot of time, money, and heart invested in. Individuals might be invited, but by and large the community was unknown. But that conversation can only get so far and the question became: Do we open this up to the public?

You heard the same back and forth. Does this attract the right type of people? Do we want to have our information available to everyone? Will this lower the quality of the forum itself? What is the value in growth, as growth for growth’s sake does not appeal to us. This is not an exhaustive list, but you can imagine the kinds of questions that came up. Ultimately, it was decided that other people could join. This brought about a “wave 2” of forum users, so to speak. And it brought some important community members. Heck, even I’m a wave 2 forum member. I started lurking early-mid 2011 and joined in September of the same year. There were challenges, but they were handled one by one.

The growth continued. Slowly, but surely, the forum became something bigger than it once was. And new decisions had to be made. Administration was expanded, to start. Any time you look to poise yourself for growth, you have to look at the manpower you have to handle the growth. Every post, ideally, needs to be read by two people with the power and authority to change it and address it if it violates the community standards. This needs to happen quickly, to make sure that people don’t think the administration is ineffective. Additionally, most of the things that happen will be a result of ignorance stemming from new member use. When you can help point them in the right direction early and kindly, they’ll become a better poster and also feel included/mentored, rather than punished. We believe this was one of PokeGym’s greatest downfalls. They didn’t cultivate community with their administrative actions. They instituted a rigorous penal system. We love and respect PokeGym, but we feel this is one way we’ve learned from their mistakes.

So let’s fast forward a little bit. We’ve balanced, in the mean time, the community guidance versus seeking to expand all along. Insider Bureau has always remained because we feel it gives individuals something to feel connected to. We cut out selling because it generated the wrong activity and drew in the wrong kinds of members. We’re aware of what that means and have made hard decisions to correct for that. Even when they were unpopular with the majority of the forum upon their institution. Removing selling was, however, one of our most effective decisions ever. Activity has increased greatly, the quality of posts has increased greatly, and member focus on collecting has increased greatly. It has been an all-around win. We’ve even had multiple example of individuals who we considered low-quality posters make incredible turnarounds. There are problem behaviors in young collectors that have to be curbed. Not all have to be present, but here are some examples:

-Purchasing high value cards for the sake of value alone
-Unsustainable rate of purchase
-Purchasing all over the place with no common theme
-Buying cards and then immediately selling them frequently
-Every card they claim to love is for sale on eBay right now

These are not points we view as condemnable, even if they would be present in “the wrong kind of collector.” Also, note that young collector doesn’t mean age in life, but length of involvement in the hobby. We view these behaviors as something born of an ignorance that we, a community of experienced, engaged collectors, have the power to help correct for. We push community values and strategically build a policy that encourages people to not only avoid these behaviors, but once formatively matured into a collector proper, help others who are new to the hobby avoid the same types of behavior. We are a formative community. This cannot be separated from the UPCCC name. Also note that none of this is done out of some “holier than thou” mentality. We don’t do this because we think everyone ought to collect as we do. To even identify “collect as we do” would be impossible because we have magnificent individuals collecting in all sorts of ways. People after one Pokemon, people after certain eras, certain languages, certain categories, so on and so forth. But the quality of a collector is not determined by the price tag or type of his collection. The quality of a collector is determined by his attitude, his behaviors, and his love of Pokemon. And so we’ve set out to make sure that as the community expands, we never lose those original values and that original vision of what we have to offer.

As we’ve reached a new level of growth, we’ve been confronted with some new challenges. We’ve addressed some of them already, which I won’t share in detail, but just know that the changes are real. You can see the evidence in the quiet addition of new moderators. You can see it in the cropping up of new faces. We have people join the forum every single day, even if they aren’t regularly posting. We’re better developing roles and administrative hierarchy gradually as well as we figure out what that needs to look like. You see titles like “Founder, WebDev, Moderator” now, which you didn’t see this time last year. These are real changes occurring out of necessity to continue to adapt to the greater collector base and also maintain what is so special about UPCCC. But some challenges remain unaddressed. First: this forum is not free. It might be free to use, but there is a real, monetary cost being paid for the use of it. As we continue to do good work in documenting and discussing, the storage space demands of the community are ever-increasing. That has already jumped a tier in expense and it will continue to do so.

In order to keep providing everyone with what they love so much, we need to look into some different innovative options. We cannot draw profit so long as our logo and name infringe on trademarks and copyrights. Making it a pay service completely undermines the free access to quality information and formative community that we stand by. If you can think of a way to draw in money, I assure you that we have thought about it as well. This has been extensively discussed with handfuls of different parties of varying ideology and expertise on the matter. But we are not giving up. We have ideas. We have more access to resources we’ve struggled heavily to recruit in the past, such as coding and graphics resources, right now. We’ve got area experts who are deeply aware of the pros and cons of different methods and who are thoroughly involved in every other type of Pokemon community budding right now. They want to be involved in our community, and we’re letting them. It’s going to be a group effort that propels the community forward because a community that fails to adapt fails to survive.

So what does this massive, interwoven system look like on the outside in the short term? That’s a great question. You’re going to see some things that appear surface level, but they have much broader, deeper implications. We really need your trust on them. Right now it is giveaways, but I assure you there is more going on there. We love the idea of being able to test out some back-end things we need to know while also literally giving free stuff to young collectors. You might come to see us being involved in some different forms of content production. And you might even have to stick by our side when we get new members who need mentoring. Anyone that has been here for more than a year knows that there are no exceptions. Each one of us matures as a collector here and each one of us helps along the newer members so they can have a better overall experience. Everyone wins, but everyone also puts some sweat and tears into it. That is truly communal in nature and we need everyone to do their part to make it work.

But you can guarantee we won’t ever sacrifice our core missional values. Everything we do is targeted at helping maintain this culture. We want to see a vibrant community that keeps what we do alive. There is value inherent to the shared experiences we have. The questions people are asking right now are not foreign. We’ve asked the same ones time and again since the forum started, albeit in nuanced ways. But my being here, your being here, and the future members are testament to the system’s continued success. Each step is calculated. It just doesn’t always look polished in final form as it is coming to be.

Hopefully, this sheds a little light on everything.


Up to the giving awayer :wink:

Charlie responds with a mission statement/creed/article type post, probably in 30 minutes, with no edits… :nerd_face:

What Charlie said is spot on. A very well detailed explanation of the overall perspective we share about the hobby, which is well worth the read.

In relation to the giveaway, this is probably just a one off deal. We have analytics for the site which we want to test the effects of advertising as that is something we really don’t do at all. The long term goal would be to have the giveaway’s in the inside bureau.

At the end of the day, this is a giveaway. The people giving away the cards can decide what they prefer.


Hmmmm, this may all be a moot point seeing as only 1 person has signed up just to enter the giveaway. That number could increase though as the word gets out.

I made a bunch of accounts for all of my family members and even some of my imaginary friends just to increase my chances of winning from 1 in 100 to 5 in 100. Oh wait, never mind i forgot the giveaway was not as serious as this post is making it out to be. I’m going to make a giveaway now that only gives things away to new people just to prove how silly the concern of thsi post is.

Appeal to the stone: dismissing a claim as absurd without demonstrating proof for its absurdity.
Straw Man: an argument based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.
Incomplete comparison: in which insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison.

I would be happy to consider your opinions if you posted them in a respectful and thoughtful way, with actual reasons.



Not feeling the “Respectful Discussion” vibe from that



Your whole “discussion” is just a form of whinning rather than actually trying to prove any kind of rational idea. I was merely demonstrating that through sarcasm.

Oh no my give away was deleted!

If need be hash this out in pm. Ethan can voice his concerns, but we ultimately will make the call.

With that said, for future reference giveaways have to be approved by the admins.


I mean people are just discussing their opinions, and stating facts…

It’s not like it’s a bunch of “ew new members suck” post lol people are writing mini essays practically Explainh themselves. So for you to say it’s not a discussion is wrong.

You’re making yourself look like a whinnier, beforr anyone could even speak you went and threw a “Giveaway”, with rules that would rub these people the wrong way…

That to me seems like you’ are the one that’s whinning about these people’s Opinion, and not discussing your thoughts on it

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