Protostoise - putting the puzzle pieces together

I remember when this card came up again on here in 2019! I was picking up these oil drums from this ladies house and I had to transfer oil from one drum on the ground to another empty drum in the bed of my truck to be able to load it. The pump I had was screwed up and taking FOREVER to do the transfer. I read the thread on it waiting for the oil to transfer hahaha.

Super duper article @quuador!

P.s. RIP all blastoise collectors that are after every blastoise ever made.

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Lol… The day after it comes back from CGC, one is already available for sale on Facebook and one will be auctioned in January… :confused:

I will be completely honest here, I kinda feel conflicted now, ngl… I wrote this article completely out of free will after I saw Tavis’ videos, because you know me, I love writing articles and I also like PokĆ©mon Sample prints. I’ve also been waiting for those videos of Tavis after his unboxing in mid 2019, because I had the feeling these were legit test prints after that thread in 2019 (especially after pictures of those uncut sheets were shared). At the time we primarily wanted to see close-up pictures of the dot and Rosetta pattern, which unfortunately were never shared back then.

And now the day after I finish this article, CGC releases their own article, and two are already available for sale. I’m not surprised they are for sale, but I am surprised it’s been less than 24 hours since I wrote my article… It’s definitely clear those two sellers only care about the authentication as stepping stone to sell it for money, and they don’t care nor appreciate the actual history behind these cards imho. Ah well, I hope they’ll go to a good home (i.e. a Blastoise collector). And I hope this article still provides a piece of English WotC printing history, since that was the reason I wrote it… :blush:

Greetz,
Quuador

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FWIW I think your article was awesome Quuador and I have always thought this card was cool. I messaged the owner of one of the yellow border ones but unfortunately he is seeking more than I can responsibly justify trade or sell cards for, hopefully a Blastoise or error / oddity collector can get their hands on it :blush:

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Yes, my card and I are named in the article from CGC as card C.

Let me start this by saying I’ve always held a reserved (reserved, given the limited evidence at the time) belief the card was authentic, even a quote used by Quuador here is me arguing that. I also have CGC membership and actively use them as of writing this post. I also really appreciate the detective work that goes into the articles they write.

The one piece I think this discussion is missing is the ā€œwhyā€ the Pokemon community - or at least the E4 community - has been generally aversive to this card. First, I don’t like how E4 reacted to the 2016 thread on this topic. It was quickly dismissed and locked without consideration when I think it may have been warranted. Yet I can understand that test cards like this is not something we see in Pokemon (unlike MTG) which is why I believe the Pokemon crowd consistently meets this card with skepticism much more than in the MTG space. In defence of this community, I think skepticism is the correct initial feeling and I would argue people were generally convinced there may be something to this card when the first piece of solid evidence was finally provided (the uncut sheet image, 3 years after the initial thread). But the critical piece that is a bit hard to immediately observe unless you’ve been following this conversation for years is this:

The discussion around this card is almost entirely driven by people who are primed to financially benefit from this card.

This thread by Quuador might be the first notable exception. Most of the context is removed from the main protostoise thread by bazaaretw because he deleted his posts after lashing out against the people here when they didn’t get on board with his excitement over the card he was trying to sell. Keep in mind it took 13 pages before the first uncut sheet pictures were posted there. Of course bazaaretw has conveniently crawled back to this forum now that this news is broken.

The next piece of information is the WOTC employee who was originally the primary source for the story of this card, Chel Bieze, was actively selling a copy through someone else over ebay. The CGC article alludes to this but doesn’t make it explicit. The reason the 2019 thread was so sour was because at the time it was a card being ā€œsoldā€ to this community where the strongest point of evidence was that there was a WOTC employee - who also had a copy to sell - said it was real. I think most people will acknowledge the authenticity of this card today, but this is the 2019 context.

Reading the CGC article that starts with ā€œthey are among the hobby’s most intriguing raritiesā€, I can’t help but get the same vibe that I’m being ā€œsoldā€ something. And we are. This card was graded to be sold on Heritage, again alluded to in the CGC article. Do you think all this information is coming out at once is coincidence? Is it unusual that four independent copies were graded at the same time? Is it surprising that Tavis - who to my knowledge is a paid consultant to CGC - came out with a video series when he did? So we have a card that is about to be auctioned, being advertised and authenticated by the same company and (and an individual who does consultation for the company) while all these relationships are kept cryptic at best. As a disclaimer, I didn’t watch Tavis’ series yet but does anyone know if he declared a connection to the CGC in the video (can someone confirm?).

Let me make this clear. I think the facts of the card are pretty much resolved at this point. I like the CGC article and I like that they are willing to slab it. I just don’t know if it’s the company’s responsibility to ā€œsellā€ the card they are authenticating. It’s a simple matter of transparency - a topic that CGC already had a issues with. It should say right at the top of this article that they are authenticating a card on behalf of Heritage to be sold in an auction and CGC should just stick to the facts of the card. I get that this is a great advertising opportunity for CGC but as a third-party authenticator, you are putting yourself in an awkward position when promoting an item you are expected to have an unbiased opinion on. The connection between Tavis, his video series, CGC and Heritage is not made clear anywhere which is why I felt it important to make this post for the sake of increased transparency.

On a final note, I just wanted to again point out that no one in Pokemon has histoically been really excited by this card. There’s a reason why basically every person connected with this card and mentioned in the CGC article is involved with MTG. It has just never organically resonated with this community. In my opinion it is because it is always bein ā€œsoldā€ to us. This trend continues today, it just feels like another campaign on why I should care about this card by people ready to benefit. I’ve had some interest in this card myself and a flat buy price of $2k for this card for over a year even prior to most of the evidence backing it was slowly disseminated. Not that I think that’s what it should be worth but that’s just the amount of money I would personally put to it. I’m sure others are in a similar boat. There is just a consistent discrepency between what the MTG people who hold these cards think the value is worth and how the Pokemon people they are trying to sell to value it.

I think this campaign will work though. Seeing through the all the details, it really turns me off of this card but the headline of ā€œfirst pokemon card authenticatedā€ will stick for the average person. It will probably do well on Heritage and people will start to care when a high confirmed sale is associated with a copy. So congrats in advance to all the players involved in injecting this card into the community. I just wanted to write this up to give as many layers of additional context as possible for current and future readers to understand the legacy of this card in relation to this community. If I’ve said anything factually wrong, please let me know and I will correct it. Otherwise, this is mainly my own personal perspective and it should be taken as such. I’m happy to clarify anything but I’m really not looking to have a back-and-forth argument defending my feelings on this topic.
Sorry for the wall of text lol

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This^ along with the recent revelations about the prerelease Raichu have really drove this home this year.

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I can admit, a lot of people did a lot of work to validate these cards. But saying that I don’t care about the card, pokemon, or it’s history is just the furthest from the truth, and I tried to express that in my original post here, but no one cared then, and just wanted to bash me. This literally came from the store I grew up playing at. I got my Wizards DCI Number playing in the Pokemon Base Set Prerelease event at the Wizards of the Coast Retail Store in Puyallup, WA. I had and still have very close ties with all of the card gaming community here in the Pacific Northwest, I opened up my own game store because I care about card games a lot. However, I’m also an individual who wasn’t given anything, and had to make his own way, and who is still not well off, and has never been comfortable financially. Given the opportunity to be without the stress of wondering how I’m going to pay the bills the next month, especially during a Pandemic, after having my store shut down for almost 3 months, I would take it in a heartbeat. I don’t have a personal collection, because everything I sell in my store is my collection, and I love that I get to share it with others who love the games and hobby. You don’t need to feel bad that you care about it either.

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I’m not here to gatekeep anyone from liking Pokemon or it’s history but it should be worth mentioning that literally 100% of your posts here in this forum are made to in relation to this card you have been trying to sell.

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I think it would be easy to state that most of what goes on in regards to Pokemon TCG in this group, as well as on Facebook are in regards to the financial aspect of the game. Otherwise we’d all be playing the video games and buying stuffies to snuggle. FWIW, I actually play VGC in tournaments. I’m not going to say anyone here doesn’t care about Pokemon, but I’m not questioning their motivations, nor do I care, and I’m baffled that it matters.

@pfm Usually I’m the one writing walls of text. :wink: But I do indeed agree with what you wrote.
As for your question:

No, I don’t think Tavis mentioned CGC anywhere in his seven videos. I’ve only listened to it once while making notes for this article, so if he mentioned it, it would have been very briefly and I could have somehow missed it. But I can say with ~90% certainty he hasn’t mentioned CGC in his seven videos.
Which is also why this CGC article a day after I wrote mine here came as a surprise. A happy surprise I might add, given the additional pictures, information, and technical tests executed, which I added as update to the article. But at the same time you’re indeed right that both CGC and the owners of the Prototstoise cards that have now been graded had an additional agenda: for CGC it’s mostly a publicity stunt, and for the owners as a stepping-stone to sell it.
No doubt they’re also happy about getting the truth out there in the end, and I have no doubt in my mind that Tavis (who doesn’t own any of these Protostoise cards himself) and some of the other MTG members that helped gaining information are happy with this conclusion by CGC and this article as well. But at the same time I feel somewhat conflicted.

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I hope they end up in the hands of a Blastoise collector in the near future. Although given some of the prices I’ve already heard earlier today, I have the feeling they’ll probably go to some rich investor that started last month, or remain within the MTG community.

Greetz,
Quuador

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Don’t get me wrong, I understand your reasons for wanting to sell it. Especially in the current market, since I have trouble keeping up financially as well with how high prices are currently, and am thinking about what items I can sell in order to keep collecting what I want.

Having said that, in 2019 you did mostly get angry at people, and you also never provided those close-up pictures people were asking for at the time. You also tried to sell it right after being in contact with that former WotC employee that provided you with pictures of the uncut sheet, which is why it was locked back in October 2019, because things went off-topic again…

I also never claimed you didn’t care about the PokĆ©mon history at all. I simply said you cared more about the money than the history. I’m not blaming you for that, I’m simply stating that it kinda disappoints me two out of the four existing Protostoise cards are already available for sale within 24 hours after I wrote this article, and the ink on the CGC labels is barely dry…


Anyway, let’s just leave it at that, because I don’t want my article to get locked like those previous two threads because we have a different opinion on this matter. Let’s just agree to disagree. All I can say is: good luck with your sale, and thanks again for creating that thread back in 2019 and sharing the information. Because regardless of the value of this card in the past, now, or in the future, it’s without a doubt a great piece of PokĆ©mon TCG history. :blush:

Greetz,
Quuador

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Many have already echoed what I would say here so I’ll leave you with this:

Awesome work. :blush:

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Really well done, @quuador !

I’ve always had this card in the back of my mind since it looked so unique, so to hear that this is (almost un-refutably) an authentic test print is wild to me. Adds another layer of history to the Pokemon TCG, kinda like the FPOs (but this is way more cool/interesting since it crosses over into MTG).

Unsurprised people are taking advantage of the verified authenticity to unload the card - it’ll probably float through a few hands during the hype before landing in a collector’s collection, but it’s truly a unique card, one that I wished I could afford (but almost certainly can’t). You’re doing more good by putting this information out into the world than holding it back : ) Keep up the amazing work!

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There are still new things being discovered every so often, so I’m almost certain that there are still things we haven’t seen before. WotC started to crack down on the leaking of test prints/playtest cards around 2008 but Mark Rosewater occasionally posts images of newer things like planeswalker playtest cards.

The important thing here is the bridge that is being made between Magic and Pokemon. I’m hoping articles like this will encourage people to ask more questions or research why something might not make sense, instead of being immediately dismissive. Asking questions leads us to cool stuff like this :grin:

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Awesome write up Quuador :blush: I faintly heard about this card when I got into collecting seriously but I had forgotten about it completely until this post

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I think it’s important to remember that we’re all people, real humans, mostly and likely adults too, and we have real lives outside of our hobbies and discussion groups like these. Compassion and empathy, while it’s clearly lacking in America at the moment, it still important at some level, when it comes to understanding each other. Believe me, I love this, and I love it’s history, it’s different for me that anyone else would could own it, and it will always be very special, as is the hobby.

I’m out of the loop with this one - what recent revelations have been made about it? (any specific thread?)

TL;DR it’s real, and authentic