On average, do market prices usually follow PWCC prices shortly after?
PWCC is the whore of the collectible world. If you pay them they will put out with zero interest, concern, or strategy. They break all the rules that common sense dictates would maximize final prices.
And to answer your question, their fake prices affect market value negatively.
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Doesnāt PWCC advertise cards theyāre going to auction to some significant extent before listing them? (Iām not sure itās fair to say they have āzero . . . strategyā)
And in what way are ātheirā prices āfakeāāisnāt it the bidding community/market fairly determining the price of any given card?
I donāt know much, but was just hoping you could help me understand your apparently extreme view on PWCC
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Iāve never used PWCC, am I missing out?
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Iāve never used them either! Some people think PWCC-auctioned cards generally fetch lower prices. But Iām not sure Iāve seen a rigorous comparison. (It might also vary significantly depending on whether PWCC is listing several of the same cards at once)
Gary, are you trying to say that you wouldnāt recommend PWCC? You werenāt 100% Clear as to your opinion with them; just wanted to to get some clarification from you. Hahaha
No, Iād have to agree with you - got a kick out of that comparison! LOL
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@KingPokemon used an extreme comparison; however, his overall post was spot-on!
Sure, you could argue that PWCC does advertise their Monthly Auctions (to some extent). They post the next Auction on their website with a run-down of everything that will be available. They also utilize e-mail marketing - where they will e-mail their subscribers about the upcoming Auction. And, Iām not positive (donāt really follow them), but Iām sure they also utilize Social Media. So, comparing them to your individual eBay Seller, they advertise much more! However, comparing them to every other large-scale eBay Consigner, they offer the exact same type of services (obviously in different categories / markets).
And when you compare PWCC to an actual Auction House; their āadvertisingā is a complete joke! PWCC and Auction Houses both sell high-end collectables on a regular basis ($100,000.00+ Cards) - yet PWCC does nothing compared to what a legitimate Auction House does for their consigner - hyping-up the item for more than a month (website, e-mail, catalogue, magazinesā¦); spending-time to write-up an actual (good) description for each collectable; using Item Titles that actually make-sense (not this plug and chug stuff that PWCC does). So, when youāre talking anything high-end, PWCC is a HORRIBLE CHOICE!
Getting into price-point, in a perfect-world, what youāre saying is partially true. Itās important to take in consideration Auction vs. Buy it Now. Generally, Auction Prices are lower than Buy it Now Prices - but thatās a whole different topic. Factoring both Auction and BIN Prices will give you a perfect overall market-value for most items (unless youāre talking something thatās very rare).
Getting back to PWCC, Iām willing to bet that thereās not a single person on E4 willing to sell you a PSA 9 1st Ed. Base Charizard for what the āmarketā determines as a fair-price via PWCC Auction - just using that as an example, can apply for many other PWCC Listings. Being an eBay Seller, Item Titles are ESSENTIAL - using the fill-in template that they use is just awful!
Hereās a recent example:
1999 Pokemon Shadowless Ultra Hi-Grd COMPLETE PSA 10 SET, Pikachu Machamp (PWCC)
eBay only allows 80 Characters within your Item Title. They used-up 30+ Characters on useless garbage (Bolded Pieces). And No, I donāt consider (PWCC) to be garbage - actually do believe thatās a positive on their part.
Additionally, and more importantly, they list cards in-order of release and set number. So, if they have 3x PSA 9 1st Ed. Charizard Cards available, each listing will be one behind the other (with just seconds between each being closed). Anyone who has ever sold on eBay for any length of time should realize that this type of practice is AWFUL and basically guarantees a lower-price. Somewhere on here, there is a screen-shot of two PSA 10 1st Ed. Base Set Chansey Cards sold by PWCC. IIRC the first card sold for $1,000.00 more than the second. Does that mean the market-value dropped by $1,000.00 in a matter of seconds? Or should we average the two to determine market-value? Personally, I wouldnāt consider either of those options to determine fair market-value.
Hope that helps clarify what Gary was trying to get at in less words than this! LOL
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The least thing PWCC (and other similar businesses) can do is provide high-res pictures for all people to judge/decide better. High-res will make cards look much clearer; rule out fake 1st stamps, any questionable imperfection, etc ā then more people may be inclined to bid higher. Meaning higher final prices as well. So thereās that.
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Trueā¦ but they donāt want you to see any flaws. If they could get away with just showing a scan of the front of the cards, Iām sure they would. lol
Itās really a shame how some of the biggest names in the game treat their customers. The worst offenders are places like Troll and Toad that will list high end cards using stock photos and actually manage to earn more than PSA 8 pricing on cards that would struggle to earn a 7. It doesnāt make any sense, but people trust the name so they buy from them rather than some random ebay/social media seller.
To answer the OP, PWCC doesnāt not matter as much as you think in the grand scheme of things. Even when they do influence the market positively, thereās always some doubts in mind whether an item was actually purchased or it was just shilled by whoever consigned with them. Thereās always weird bidding behaviour, so I wait at least a month or two to see some legit sales data.
Iāve only purchased 1 card from PWCC that I couldnāt pass up on. Like Gary said, the way they do business negatively effects this hobby. I will never buy from PWCC again. I wonāt contribute to the 99 cent auction BS. SMPRATTE made a good video about this.
pretty spot on explanationā¦ can relate to the PSA 9 charizard exampleā¦ had buyers claiming that pwcc sold them at 4500 and therefore what they āvaluedā them at and based their willingness to pay. Fast forward to yesterday where two copies sold for BIN at 5700 and 6000 respectively, with the 6k seller confirming that his copy sold outright with no negotiations to a seller that had the money to spend on whatever necessary to complete his collecting goals.
Read oldscools post above. Heās smarter than me;)
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At the same time if youāre going to sell high end items and want to maximize earnings, you may as well get a 4k camera and do it yourself. A couple hundred for a camera would be a drop in the bucket for some of these sales.
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Another thing worth mentioning in regards to their āadvertisingā is all their email drops and advertising that I see or receive, even though Iāve only ever bought MTG and pokemon cards from them, are all sports related. I donāt ever see pokemon hype or advertising, the only stuff thatās ever in their emails to me are sports cards, I donāt think I even saw the full shadowless set in an email to me. Iāve literally never bought sports cards from them (or anyone) and all I get is sports card advertising.
Iāve posted it before (not sure if it was here or one of Scottās videos) but I use PWCC more as a discount store these days. I donāt expect things to sell for a premium (sometimes they do, not saying they donāt) but most of the tim because theyāre listing multiples of the same items you can pick cards up cheap.
So to answer the OPs question, no the market doesnāt follow pwcc prices, people might try to get you to sell to them based on their recent prices but most sellers will just hold the card as they can usually get a higher price.
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Oh, well I was hoping to learn how you supported your own belief, given that youāre such a legend!
Pwcc prices are real when they break new records and fake when they are below expectations (:
P.s. For that chansey, the one that ended lower was a weaker 10, I consciously avoided it to bid for the other one. Although I do agree they shouldnāt have been sold at the same auction thereās a reason one went for lower than the other
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It only seems like a double standard when you donāt understand the reasoning. If the market was dictated by the buyers then it would be about getting as much product out the door as possible, and the lower prices would accomplish that goal. If the market is dictated by the sellers itās about maximizing the potential out of your inventory and trying to get the best price out of it. Since they donāt print new cards guess which market dictation we have.
Of course you seem to know this. If you didnāt the prices in your eBay store would be much lowerā¦
Unfortunately, thatās why I have minimal to no sold listings, the market doesnāt care that I think it should be worth more. Check in a couple of weeks, Iām lowering prices
It depends on what youāre selling. If youāre selling PSA 10 1st edition base (Charizard, Blastoise) or a rare trophy card, then you can dictate the market as a seller because there arenāt other options. If a card has 10+ copies on the market, then the buyer has the luxury of choosing the cheapest price and overpriced cards wonāt be bought.
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