How I Almost Lost $12,000 (Green Wing Clear Wrap Box Scam)

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I’m incredibly embarrassed to admit I fell victim to my first Ebay scam in 18 years of using the site and although it might make me look like a fool I think it’s best to share my experience to help ensure other collectors don’t fall victim to the same trap I did, which unfortunately is all too common with these particular boxes. There’s also going to be some tips for returning an item along with what I would do to optimize the process next time. :confused:

Item Bought: Sealed 1999 Base Set Green Wing, Clear Wrap, Long Crimp, Shadowless Box
Buying format: Ebay auction
Sale Date: February 19th, 2020
Seller: David Pozuelo
Ebay ID at time of scam: blackcharizard9
Location: Spain

Features of the box that raised concerns:

-The seal was horrendous. Yeah, it looks okay at a distance but it was so bad that the tear on the side in the video below happened from the weight of the box alone when flipping it upside down in my hands. The legit WOTC seals are much stronger and have thicker plastic at the seams. This was the most obvious tell from the listing and I should have known better having other authentic boxes in my collection. The green wings put me into a deep hypnosis I guess.

-The seal was too glossy. Pretty simple but hard to notice from pictures. The seal had more of a glossy finish than other WOTC boxes I have.

-The weight was off. I could tell even by holding it. Authentic boxes have a pretty tight weight range that I won’t disclose here. It’s one more piece of the puzzle and while not an exact science, it’s a pretty good sign something is wrong when your box weight is off.

-The box seemed overly stuffed and firm despite having a pressure crease from being stacked at some point in the pass. Often times there is sufficient room in old Base Set boxes for you to move the top packs side to side. With this one, they wouldn’t budge. I would later find out this was because they were taped together. Ouch.

-The long crimp seal on the top left pack was already cut open with scissors! Yeah, big giveaway. It actually took me a minute to find but after getting the right angle of light and pushing down pretty firmly on the flap you could see the slice. Once you see the video you’ll realize it was actually a short seal Shadowless pack with a taped on long crimp! That’s right, this is the first ever long-short crimp pack pulled… just kidding.

Here’s an image I took showing the cut flap of the top pack. Yep, he used real shadowless pack wrappers for the top. Lots of tape holding everything in place.

Images Saved from the Listing:

Click to Show/Hide Images













Box Opening Video:
(Sorry about my gross fingernails. I’m no hand model. I also muted the video so you don’t have to hear my bitter tone.)

Shadowless Box Scam Opening - YouTube

What did I do correctly in the return process?

-I never lost my cool when messaging the seller. I simply told him there was a problem and sent him a picture of the cut pack under the flap. He immediately asked me to return it. At one point I had to stop myself from telling him he is a scammer and ranting, etc. This would accomplish nothing and could only potentially hurt my chances of receiving the money back.

-I never told the seller I opened the box. I didn’t want the seller to know I opened it because there was a chance he might try to avoid receiving my return shipment if he knew the box was being returned in a different form from how he sent it. If he wasn’t the one who resealed it he might not want the seal broken because he could try passing it off again. That said, I’m pretty confident he did the resealing as the packs inside were released last year and his original story was that he bought the box five years prior from an event in Mexico. Big red flag right there. No offence to my Mexican amigos but I’ve rarely, if ever, seen a Pokemon listing from Mexico, let alone a rare item like this.

-I returned every bit of the contents I received and didn’t attempt to scam the scammer which was quite tempting, I must say. I could have easily shipped him back a box of rocks and kept the authentic shell plus the plastic case but again, I didn’t want him to open the package and realize I scammed him back which could have upped my chances of a lengthier dispute. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The crappy part about this is he still has the box and can do it again.

-I called Ebay and FedEx(USPS transfers to FedEx for Intl. Priority Mail) numerous times throughout the whole process, asking tons of questions and proposing what if scenarios. One useful understanding I took from this is that when you send an item back and it’s your return label and not the seller’s, you are only covered once the seller signs for the item so make sure you have signature confirmation and make sure your package is insured/tracked. More on the reason for insurance below. Also, if it’s your label, you must pay for it and Ebay can’t make the seller reimburse you. All you can do is ask them to help you out and hope they’ll at least split it with you. One more important fact about Ebay is if a seller refuses to accept an item or refuses to pay duties and the packages gets sent back it is seen as a delivery by Ebay and you can get your money back. That helped me sleep a night.

What could I have done better in the return process?

-Taken more pictures of the box and it’s fake seal to share here. (Ebay never looks at pictures or video by the way so they are useless in that regard. They simply honor your request for a return under their “Ebay Money Back Guarantee” if you claim the item isn’t authentic.)

-Printing a label myself online or using the seller’s label versus going to a USPS brick and mortar. The employees at USPS were of little help, surprise surprise. In fact, they may have helped caused a one week delay on my package! Since I was the one paying for a third party to ship the item back, I’m essentially hiring someone to return the item. If the item is lost in transit by the shipper I’m shit out of luck and can’t get my money back unless I claim the loss with the postal company. If the seller sends a label for you to use, once it is scanned in you are good. The lost package scenario is on them. I only used my own shipping method because I was unfamiliar with the company the seller used and I didn’t trust him at all so I had a fear he’d try to pull something with the shipping. Because I did this, I needed to insure the package for full value despite it’s contents being worth a couple hundred bucks. That’s where the postal employee incompetence comes in. Nobody could tell me the max insurance for GXG shipping.(I believe it’s $5000 for all priority services and up to $50,000 for registered mail.) Long story short I took a big risk and ended up sending it marked at $100 after crossing out other much higher values. I suspect this along with the seller refusing to pay import duties is what lead to my delay in customs. I should have just stopped and went home to print a label from my computer. Customs needed proof from the seller that this was a return and not a taxable import. He had to call UPS, the original shipper he used, to obtain a specific form called a DUA in Spain. After filling out a FedEx form then obtaining and sending FedEx the UPS form, customs took three days to release the item. Talk about a sweat. All out of my control and relying on the scammer to handle it. Check out this terrifying, two week journey the package took. It starts at the bottom.

Thursday , 3/05/202012:47 pmARGANDA DEL REY ES

Delivered

8:56 amSAN FERNANDO DE HENARES ES

On FedEx vehicle for delivery

6:54 amSAN FERNANDO DE HENARES ES

In transit

6:52 amSAN FERNANDO DE HENARES ES

At local FedEx facility

Wednesday , 3/04/20203:10 pmMADRID ES

Shipment exception

Held, cleared regulatory agency(s) after aircraft/truck departed

3:10 pmMADRID ES

At local FedEx facility

Thursday , 2/27/20207:49 pmMADRID ES

Clearance delay - Import

7:39 amMADRID ES

In transit

Package available for clearance

5:54 amMADRID ES

At destination sort facility

4:11 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

Departed FedEx location

3:57 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

In transit

Wednesday , 2/26/20209:00 pmROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

At local FedEx facility

8:01 pmROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

In transit

3:30 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

In transit

3:30 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

At local FedEx facility

1:58 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

In transit

1:52 amKOELN DE

In transit

12:53 amROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE CEDEX FR

Arrived at FedEx location

Tuesday , 2/25/202011:50 pmKOELN DE

Departed FedEx location

8:16 pmKOELN DE

Arrived at FedEx location

7:09 amINDIANAPOLIS, IN

Departed FedEx location

7:00 amINDIANAPOLIS, IN

In transit

3:52 amINDIANAPOLIS, IN

In transit

2:20 amINDIANAPOLIS, IN

Arrived at FedEx location

Monday , 2/24/20206:08 pmLOS ANGELES, CA

Picked up

The USPS version is even worse and less accurate but I’ll spare you.

Ironically the seller actually had great communication throughout the whole ordeal and I forgot to mention, all of his messages were in Spanish while all of mine were in English. Thank you technology.
He wants me to leave him good feedback now and is leveraging half the cost of my return shipping to get it. Yeah, nice try buddy. I wouldn’t leave him good feedback for an added zero. Even two. Three? Okay, maybe three zeros will get you some “good” feedback. How bout three zeros and I leave you well written negative feedback? :rofl:

In the end, do your research and use that knowledge to the best of your ability, especially when spending exorbitant amounts of money. I had the knowledge and still made a novice mistake. I was blinded by the light and could have used the resources of E4 to double check authenticity and I know for a fact I would have been steered clear had I done so. There was a reasonable doubt it was legit in my mind but I figured I could easily return it should anything go wrong. I also didn’t want to create more buzz and have you sharks coming in and outbidding me on an item that ended in the middle of the night, haha. Some times you gotta learn the hard way.

So what can be done about resealed boxes? One suggestion I have is some sort of marking that voids a box if you ever go to sell an empty. I think a nice hole in the bottom or inking would be good. Maybe it’s not because a scammer could just tear a hole in the seal as well and make it seem as though it happened while sealed. What are some suggestions from you guys? Maybe cut a large enough portion or a specific shape out of the bottom to where it can’t be left up to excuses of damage?

I’m sure there’s more I can add but I’ll put this up for now and edit it later. Mods if there’s any problem with posting this stuff, if it’s in the wrong category, or if anyone would like to suggest that I change anything about this guide of sorts, please let me know.

Stay safe out there or Team Rocket just might strike again.

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Sorry to hear about that. I think that’s the same seller who was trying to sell a 1st Edition Base Booster Box to me and others.

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In summary: praise be to eBay’s buyer protection

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@garyis2000 look familiar? :hushed::hushed::hushed:

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Man, been seeing a lot of sealed booster box scams the past few months :slightly_frowning_face:

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Man that really sucks, but looks like it worked out for you in the end. Lots of scummy people trying to pass fake boxes here lately :slightly_frowning_face:

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More money more problems. Luckily this one ended well. 90% of scam boxes are because of that clear wrap!

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I’m glad you got your money back! What is the best way sellers can prove their clear wrap boxes are legitimate?

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There is so many scams out there that it makes buying a legitimate item difficult and put into question. It’s just horrible for the community. I put myself in your shoes when reading your story and it sounds like a near heart attack. So glad it worked out for you. My one question is why did he pull the scam and respond right away and refund it? I believe the whole story and all but it makes no sense. It’s like you go Rob the bank and than go bring the money back like nothing happened? I just don’t understand why he did all that work to pull this elaborate scam to be polite and quickly refund. Again it’s great it worked out for the best but even if you put yourself into the mind of the scammer it just doesn’t seem like a well thought out robbery. Usually they have zero remorse. I can’t stand people that do things like this. And the other funny part is he is acting like he never meant to scam you when it was blatantly obvious he did. Team Rocket is just as clueless in real life apparently haha o and last question. Is this some type of charge. Its a very high dollar amount definitely in the felony category. Isn’t it still a felony if you didn’t get the refund? I know there has to be some type of actual punishment for situations like this. Even with the refund I feel like this should be at least a removal from eBay or real life probation for attempted robbery. Regardless if it’s a collectable

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The best way would be to open it up and show that all the packs haven’t been tampered with.

Best non-destructive way would be to show that the box’s wrapping is in good condition, perform a peek inside the flap to verify the packs are shadowless, and if shadowless, check the long/short status of the packs.

I think I’d be more comfortable with the box if the packs inside were long rather than short, but I’m not sure there’s good authority out there that one occurred more than the other for actual clear-seal boxes. Apparently the last clear-seal box sold on PWCC contained short packs.

Provenance would also be nice, and will probably be more important in the future for things like boxes, but really isn’t a thing at the moment for Pokemon afaik. Obviously at this point there’s almost no way to track a box all the way back to the retail or distributor sale for 99.9%+ the older boxes out there, but something’s better than nothing, even if it’s a previous ebay sale or paypal receipt.

Of course in the end there’s no way to know 100% that the box isn’t a perfect fake that has all the nitty gritty details worked out and accounted for. But every buyer has to establish their own threshold with how comfortable they are taking the risk with their money. Old WoTC box collectors that are only buying now and have no intention of opening may never know that the box in their possession is 100% legitimate. In some cases, the illusion is better than the reality. I can only imagine the emotional turmoil that some collectors feel when they find out that a prize possession is in fact a fake product and the chance to correct the error is long gone.

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I’ve already received a few messages from other people who were either going to bid or did bid on the auction. I’m really glad I won it and not someone just starting out. This experience could be the ultimate vibe kill that ends someone’s collecting passion.

@hypernova 's got it. I did ask about provenance and ultimately took the risk. When he said he bought it five years ago in Mexico that should have stopped me. Also, I’m sure there are many others out there who would have peaked inside, saw the long crimp and never questioned it again. That’s what the seller was hoping for. I’m glad it was me and not someone less astute. If someone bought it then passed it on later they could be the one liable and take a huge hit to their reputation and wallet.

@qwachansey , luckily I have other boxes, including Base Unlimited that I can compare to. The seal was way off as I said. Weight, seal, gloss, pack integrity, movement of packs… There are many pieces of the puzzle that ultimately add up and provide confidence. I ignored several of them before buying and took the risk. If I thought there was no money back guarantee from Ebay I’d be much more conservative. Another way of giving the customer confidence is to sell through a big name auction house like Heritage. Also, anyone who doesn’t provide extremely clear and undeniable pictures peaking inside the flap is hiding something. It takes a minute to get the lighting right but it’s the least they can do given the value of the box. He provided more pictures but they were hard to distinguish long from short crimp. I know now he didn’t want to peak too far in and expose the taped creation.

@mcorey777 , Well here’s the deal. Once you open a return on Ebay, there’s very little a seller can do. They literally get like three options to click and the only one that leads to them getting the supplies back to make another fake is to click the “accept return” option. They can try offering a partial refund but there’s no way anyone would accept that. It would lead to a further dispute that they’d ultimately lose and with this kind of money, you’re creating a big enemy. I’m not sure the legal implications but I know in the States it could be taken up in court and for such an amount it’s in more serious territory. I won’t say too much but even though in the grand scheme of things $12k isn’t all that much, it’s enough to put me on a plane for a vacation to Spain. His ideal scenario was to sell to someone gullible enough to not question it once receiving it. He was so on top of communication that he messaged me before the shipment arrived and asked if I’d be there to accept it and minutes after delivery asked me if I got it. He wanted to see if I’d get it and be that person who gave it a once over and never questioned it again. My first response after receiving it was, “We have a problem.” Then I sent the photo of the cut pack under the flap. Maybe he wouldn’t be as receptive if I had been accusatory from he start.

@buckna , Hey, there’s members here from Italy that I’d gladly deal with. They don’t deserve to be thrown under the bus because of the few bad actors. Also, this was Spain but yeah, I get that there’s been many scammers from Italy and Europe in the past.

@smpratte , Yep, while I don’t think the white WOTC stamps are anywhere close to impossible to fake, it certainly acts as one more deterrent. Jumping over to coin grading, there’s entire fake slabs that attempt to mirror grading company cases and the coins inside look damn near perfect in some instances. On topic, that’s a bad ass ancient coin you picked up and shared on IG. Really nice piece, congrats.

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Thanks for sharing - as a novice hobbyist, I would def not be able to tell authentic or not from the listing photos, it seems (to me at least) the Seller did a decent job marketing the box as legit from the photos.

May I ask - for boxes with WotC wraps, are those quite safe to look into for sealed product? Or are there cases where scammed have managed to replicate WotC wrap?

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Sure does. I hope I helped you steer clear of it. I wish my boy Tem had contacted me.

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Still on the shadowless train? Yeah, 12k sounds like a deal for a box! At least this ended well. Don’t worry, USPS lost my 1st edition Charizard in the mail last year. It was an experience I’ll never forget. Lesson learned: get full insurance coverage on big items always.

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The box from Huggins & Scott came in yesterday. I recorded everything but some marking on the bottom immediately threw up a red flag for me. For about 10 minutes I was sure it had been resealed. I called Charlie as well to have him take a look. My problem I was trying to exame damage to the plastic with a camera between my face and the box. It was not until I got right up in some light with eyeball almost touching the box before I could see that damage under the box matched up with damage on the wrap. I examined that thing for 30 minutes straight shaking the tar out of it. In a few hours I felt okay. Now I read this thread and start doubting again lol

I went back to shaking the box around, checking the weight, checking the seams, crimps, etc.

This box is as confirmed as I can go short of opening it up or buying one from Gary’s sealed case (Ive tried haha). Even with all of that checking out and having a for sure shadowless box to compare to - I still cant say for certain that some expert didnt just stack 2 possibly 3 shadowless packs in there and plant the damage on the wrap. What makes it all even more suspicious is how nearly a dozen boxes popped up in the past few months.

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It’s a tough one for sure, and with your experience it’s possible that any owner of a box will never actually know.
Does the auction house provide any sort of guarantee of authenticity?

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I think I have like 15 days to bring up any issues. I will probably reach out anyways just to see if I can get the background on the box to pass along.

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How can you 100% verify a clear wrapped box = Provenience.

Provenience will become one of the most valuable intangibles moving forward. No expert can 100% guarantee a box at this point unless they know its origin.

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Opener up and find out :+1:

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