What would you do?

[icollectr]

@ripguyfawkes

I think people are confusing “fault for the damage that occurred” with “responsibility for financial reimbursement”. Nobody in their right mind would argue that the seller is at fault for the box getting opened/damaged. But as far as responsibility for financial reimbursement goes, the rules are clear. The responsibility is the seller’s. Whether this is fair or not is a different discussion.

100% this.

[pfm]

@icollectr

@pfm

The buyer chose to buy internationally which means they are consenting to the customs process and any relevant fees.

The argument that the seller is at fault because they took on the risk of international shipping isn’t persuasive because the buyer is literally making the same choice. The question is, why does the seller have to take on the liability for import rules of the buyer’s country?

eBay’s policy is clear. I actually agree with the sentiment, but that doesn’t matter. Your opinion, my opinion, everyone’s opinion in this thread doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is eBay’s policy which does not provide guidelines (that I could find at least) in this specific scenario. That ultimately means that the buyer is going to get reimbursed, the seller can try to fight eBay and get them to cover it. If there wasn’t a mediator in the deal this would be a much more interesting discussion, unfortunately for the seller, they chose to sell on eBay and agree to play by their rules.

I thought I made it pretty clear in the first post you quoted that my stance is more about principle than about what Ebay would do.

The thread is literally titled “What would you do?”

[smpratte]

Policy ≠ law. And certainly not what’s right. So many sellers have been hammered because of ebays inept policies.

If people want to stay on the policy track; If you take this same approach and blame the seller with any japanese middleman, you are banned for life. Clearly the policy answer is not some inherent truth or law.

Good news is I believe GSP has some coverage for these type of situations. I had a psa case arrived cracked, and gsp took care of the problem. I’m also curious if the buyer request to underdeclare. If so, all bets are off.

[icollectr]

Take out the policy part, as covered I think everyone agrees you’d win that based on eBay’s policy.

What is the best possible outcome that doesn’t hurt both parties badly and is the least amount of hassle? I’d say the partial refund. I’m not into yugioh, don’t know what exactly that would look like for it to be considered fair. Either way, shitty situation. Hope you get it squared.

[chappo]

@icollectr

Take out the policy part, as covered I think everyone agrees you’d win that based on eBay’s policy.

www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/international-trading-policy?id=4338

[chrispy]

@dragonwarrior

So I am in a situation that I have never been in before. I bought a box on ebay from Australia and when it arrived to me, it turns out that US Customs opened the box (all packs are there and are sealed). I did not know that US Customs would open the box. Because it is on ebay, I opened an received damaged item case. I am 99% sure that I will win the case but the guy is really fighting me on it. He is now trying to say that the burden falls on both of us because my country’s customs opened the box. I think that logic is just wrong since it’s his responsibility to get me what I ordered as described. I am a sealed box collector and have no interest in the loose packs. After a bunch of back and forths he is now trying to say that a partial refund would be fair. He hasn’t even accepted the return. I think I should just wait and let ebay step in because he wont even accept the return. Would you all try to work out a partial refund or do you think it’s fine that I want ebay to step in at this point?

Don’t buy sealed boxes from international sellers if you’re going to stiff them like this if customs decides to open. There is LITERALLY nothing a seller can do to keep customs from opening a box. Literally nothing. So you’re basically asking if it’s ok to fuck them over since you’re a “sealed collector”. Do the right thing. He still loses with a partial refund and you can still be ahead by selling the sealed packs.

[chrispy]

@Kampes_Cards

Buyer absolutely should take no loss here.
Don’t sell internationally if you can’t accept that risk.

This is why I don’t sell internationally. So fucked up. Nothing you can do about customs opening something sealed before allowing it to continue processing to it’s destination.

[icollectr]

@chappo

@icollectr

Take out the policy part, as covered I think everyone agrees you’d win that based on eBay’s policy.

www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/international-trading-policy?id=4338

Yeah, not seeing anything there that pertains to this exact situation. Unless I see something in the policy that states “eBay MBG does not cover damage done by customs”, I don’t think your point stands.

[chrispy]

Any time anyone cries about why American’s don’t like selling to Europeans, Australians, etc, AND VICE VERSA. Here is your reason. No lack of empathy or accountability. Sellers always are the ones expected to assume to get buttfucked even when things are absolutely 1000% beyond their control.

[chappo]

@icollectr

@chappo

www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/international-trading-policy?id=4338

Yeah, not seeing anything there that pertains to this exact situation. Unless I see something in the policy that states “eBay MBG does not cover damage done by customs”, I don’t think your point stands.

ebay refers to the rules and regulations of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection and if you put in a little effort, you might find out that the customs officer can examine the imported goods

[enigma]

If we are going to get technical here in regards to shipping, if the seller pays the shipping fee, they technically own the item until it is delivered to the customer. On the other hand if the buyer pays the shipping fee, they technically own the item as soon as it leaves the seller. I don’t think eBay really cares about making that distinction since it would likely lead to a lot of confusion and unhappy customers (why would eBay do anything to alienate customers when their business model is designed to attract more of them?) The way I see it, if a customer paid for shipping, they technically are in possession of the item once the seller ships it and any damage/loss is now not the responsibility of the seller. Obviously as a seller myself I don’t abide by that logic, since eBay nor PayPal agrees with me and it would be unfair to hold clients to my own personal beliefs rather than the actual rules laid out by the selling platform. However, in a situation like this, the buyer paid the import fee and therefore should technically own the package once it is received by customs, meaning any damage done from that point on is the responsibility of the buyer. The seller didn’t pay for that “service” and more importantly, can’t control the decisions of a customs agency, so they shouldn’t be held accountable.

The seller actively chose to allow international buyers, but nothing is forcing an international buyer to import from that seller. The decision ultimately rests in the buyer’s hands, if they decide to import an item they should be well aware of the procedures of their country’s customs. It is not the seller’s responsibility to know that.

[zorloth]

@chappo

@icollectr

Yeah, not seeing anything there that pertains to this exact situation. Unless I see something in the policy that states “eBay MBG does not cover damage done by customs”, I don’t think your point stands.

ebay refers to the rules and regulations of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection and if you put in a little effort, you might find out that the customs officer can examine the imported goods

If we’re just talking about eBay policy, Apex is 100% correct. eBay MBG covers any item that doesn’t arrive as described. There’s no clause in the MBG that states “unless customs opening the package was the reason it wasn’t as described.” Dragonwarrior would absolutely be protected under eBay MBG, regardless of whether or not you think he should be.

The page you linked has nothing to do with eBay MBG.

[icollectr]

@chappo

@icollectr

Yeah, not seeing anything there that pertains to this exact situation. Unless I see something in the policy that states “eBay MBG does not cover damage done by customs”, I don’t think your point stands.

ebay refers to the rules and regulations of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection and if you put in a little effort, you might find out that the customs officer can examine the imported goods

No need to try to get condescending, especially when you’re wrong. An examination does not equal destruction. Park the moral/ethics of this, by eBay policy this buyer would 100% be covered and not acknowledging that is silly. As I stated previously, the most fair thing would be work with the seller on a partial refund that way nobody loses their ass on this.

[c0ll3ct0r]

@enigma

The seller actively chose to allow international buyers, but nothing is forcing an international buyer to import from that seller. The decision ultimately rests in the buyer’s hands,

The buyer actively chose to import from an international seller, but nothing is forcing the seller to allow international buyers. The decision ultimately rests in the seller’s hands.

Neither option “works”. But on Ebay it does.

[icollectr]

I’m going to stop commenting in hopes that this topic dies lol. What a cluster.

[joetehman]

@justinmew

The customer is always right.

Nope, sorry. This is always the dumbest thing ever invented, the customer is wrong pretty much all of the time when arguing. As most people who work retail or sell on ebay know, customers are problematic and usually wrong in any justification they have. Using an 80 year old slogan for retail companies who didn’t want to lose customers regardless of if they’re right just doesn’t apply today, especially to independent sellers.

This situation is a tough one, both people have risk (which is why I don’t sell internationally). But I feel like the sellers partial is a pretty fair option based on everything. He is trying to at least, help the buyer as well as not getting royally screwed in fees and returns for something he no control over or couldn’t protect against. Its not like it could be insured (AFAIK).

But tough situation overall and I can see both sides.

[pichufan]

I’m late to the party but I’d have to side with the seller on this one. It’s a really awful situation but at the end of the day unless there was something very obviously suspicious about the package the seller is not at fault here and shouldn’t have to reimburse you in any way as they’ve done nothing wrong.

I think your best option here is to leave the seller alone and try to raise a damage claim with US Customs and Border Protection (I think this may be the right page: help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-178?language=en_US). I imagine with any kind of claim like this you’d stand very little chance of getting any money back though, but hopefully the invoice attached to the package detailed that the item was specifically a sealed box and you may be able to use that to highlight the damage caused.

[gottaketchumall]

I’ve been the buyer in a similar situation a few times and I just lived with it. It has just been base “4th print” packs a few times and one time they got me a 1999 copyright holo Gyarados all others a non holo rare pack I wouldn’t have opened.

Win some lose some. Neither persons fault.

If I was the seller I’d have been using GSP and probably would have been shielded from this. If I did it direct it would have been via friends and family or crypto and I woulda said sorry about your luck and probably similarly offered some small amount for a refund just feeling bad about it.

As far as the debate on who should theoretically have to take the L on this one I’d say the seller and typically I’m one who sides with sellers more often than with buyers. Sellers job is to get the item to the buyer as shown in the photos and that didn’t happen here. Wasn’t the fault of either the seller nor the buyer but that is irrelevant IMO. Interesting conversation though.

[acebren]

Over the years I’ve had customs open up a few packages I’ve purchased and damage the item inside, I’ve never expected the seller to reimburse me for it.

[admiral]

Its only $300, just eat the price difference between sealed and unweighed packs.