So I am in a situation that I have never been in before. I bought a box on ebay from Australia and when it arrived to me, it turns out that US Customs opened the box (all packs are there and are sealed). I did not know that US Customs would open the box. Because it is on ebay, I opened an received damaged item case. I am 99% sure that I will win the case but the guy is really fighting me on it. He is now trying to say that the burden falls on both of us because my country’s customs opened the box. I think that logic is just wrong since it’s his responsibility to get me what I ordered as described. I am a sealed box collector and have no interest in the loose packs. After a bunch of back and forths he is now trying to say that a partial refund would be fair. He hasn’t even accepted the return. I think I should just wait and let ebay step in because he wont even accept the return. Would you all try to work out a partial refund or do you think it’s fine that I want ebay to step in at this point?
I feel terrible for both the seller, and for you. BUT, Try to put yourself in his shoes. He is going to be out a lot of money at no fault of his own. I think a partial refund is fair, but I understand if you are not interested in keeping the loose packs. This is why it’s worth considering jumping on a plane and hand delivering big purchases. Godspeed to both of you.
Customs opening a box is not the fault of the seller. It’s a risk you take when buying anything international. There’s nothing the seller could have done to make customs not open it, it’s just a very rare occurrence.
You may win the eBay case, but fighting a seller on something that they had zero control over (it’s not like they packaged it badly and it was damaged) is not right in my opinion. If they’re offering a partial refund I think that’s more than fair.
I get what you are saying and appreciate the quick response but I don’t get why he is fighting me on trying to return it?
And what would you say is fair in terms of a partial refund? 50-50 on the total I paid after tax and shipping?
I’m guessing this was a pretty expensive box. He probably payed a good amount to ship the item and a return would cost even more and he would be out full price of the item as well which is why he would fight the return. If I sold a box through eBay Global Shipping Program and it arrived to the buyer opened by customs, then I think eBay would side with the me as the seller if a case was opened by the buyer. I think the buyer assumes the risk here for buying international when there have been stories in the past about customs opening boxes to check contents. I think offering a small partial refund for something that wasn’t his fault is more than enough. 50 percent seems kinda crazy.
What box is it? are we talking WOTC or Steam Siege?
You want to return it and wash your hands of the situation but you can’t understand why a seller wouldn’t want to accept the return? If you apply like 1 unit of empathy it shouldn’t be hard to understand.
IMO this is not the seller’s fault at all. They could not have done anything to prevent this from happening. Your country’s import process is not the responsibility of the seller. Just as the seller is not responsible for customs fees, they are not responsible if your customs office decides to exercise a search in your package. This is a problem between you and the import process of your country
Of course stories like this and the way you’ve chosen to handle it only gives more justification to the people who refuse to ship internationally
Take the partial, rip em, grade em, don’t rip em and instead sell em, don’t rip em and grade the packs, sell some, rip some, grade some, trade some. Neither of you are in a fun position money wise, but if he cuts his margin down by reimbursing you, and you roll with the way of things and get creative, you stand to get ahead even more than (him) and have some fun doing it. Packs appreciate when held as well. All easy for me to say, and I get your goal is a sealed booster so how to make that happen, but you stand a decent chance of getting the next box cheaper if things fall your way. You can let eBay rule, and that’s perfectly fair play, but you know it wasn’t his fault, either, and in those cases I try to do what seems reasonable for both when both are willing to give a little, earn some mutual respect, and keep karma from taking a big bite out of my shorts.
I was looking to buy sealed boxes from Australia but didn’t go through with it for fear of customs opening them.
Because they sold/sent you a sealed product and you’re trying to return an opened product.
It’s a very shitty situation that you both loose on. I wouldn’t use eBay siding with you as an indication that you’re in the right, just that the eBay system can be broken and abused by buyers. I think a partial refund is more than fair, and that taking the case to eBay or giving them negative feedback would be unfair on a gamble that occurs everytime one purchases internationally, especially when it’s your country’s customs thats at fault.
In such cases, buyers assume the risk. If not willing to, don’t purchase sealed product internationally.
I think a partial refund is more than fair as well but a 50% refund is absurd IMO. Getting any amount back is fair because as the buyer, its your responsibility to know how customs works in your country.
I can empathize with both sides here. Why should you have to lose money and deal with the hassle of reselling something you don’t want because there was an issue with shipping? Why should he have to accept the return when it wasn’t his fault it was opened?
Ultimately, after some thought, I think the seller has to take this one on the chin. I’m having a hard time finding a reason why the buyer in this scenario should suffer any material damages whatsoever, as the item is substantially and irreconcilably different than what was ordered. The buyer in this case is not getting the item he purchased, but with a ding or a tear, which might still be okay and potentially compensable, he is getting something that is completely different than what he ordered (since he is a sealed collector). Sure, the item still has value, but now the buyer has to undergo the process of reselling the item, potentially at a loss, in order to recoup the money he paid. Even partial compensation seems unreasonable in this case.
But that’s my opinion, which is worth about as much as the pixels it’s rendered on. Instead of making an emotional argument here, here’s what eBay would say should happen in this case, which is probably more important than any of our opinions:
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If you contact eBay and describe the situation, they will tell you to open the return case as Item Not As Described and have them step in if the buyer refuses the return. Why? Because the item is not in the same condition as described in the listing. Simple as that.
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eBay expects that you will ship the item back in its original condition. Well, funny thing here eBay, it didn’t arrive in the original condition. Since the item was not returned in the condition it was sent, the seller can provide a partial refund for as much as 50% less than the selling price. However, eBay expects the seller to follow the guidelines here1 (see the Refund deduction guidelines table), which looks like the seller could claim a 5-10% loss in value since the original packaging is missing. There might be some wiggle room here if the seller can convince a customer service rep of a more substantial difference in value.
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The buyer, since it was no fault of their own, will probably contest the partial refund amount – if the buyer is in good standing, eBay will typically accept this request for full reimbursement.
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From my experience, for buyers and sellers that have good standing on eBay, when there is a dispute where neither party is to blame, eBay usually is the one that takes a hit to make both parties happy. Which means the seller may get their original item back (opened), a 5-10% partial refund, and the buyer will be fully reimbursed.
Not a perfect resolution, and of course this requires navigating the eBay bureaucracy which takes time and patience, but imo is by far better than trying to work out some ad hoc agreement where neither party is all that happy.
I would sell the packs to a store that has the box you want sealed for store credit so they can get better margins and more value for you and then purchase the sealed box with prob some extra $ or resell the packs individually and make your money back that way for your box that you get domestically
Not the sellers fault, and making them take the blame is silly… isn’t parcel insurance an aspect of this too of customs somewhat damaging your item?
Buyer absolutely should take no loss here.
Don’t sell internationally if you can’t accept that risk.
Sellers are responsible for getting the item to its origin. Idk why everyone is saying it is on you. They say that’s part of the risk of doing business online. So why is it now part of the risk of buying online, on a platform that guarantees what you ordered or money back? The seller agrees to those terms. When a seller loses a package getting to a buyer, people always chalk it up to, ‘that’s how it goes, the business of selling online comes with risks’.
Sounds like a double standard here.
Ebay money back guarantee. It isn’t the sellers fault, but it isn’t the buyer’s either. It sucks for both parties. But instead of it being the buyers risk for buying international, when applying all the aforementioned logic (that is constantly said here on the forum), I see it as the seller’s risk of selling international. This is why I don’t sell internationally, among other things. Too many risks.
That said, depending on the value, I am the type of person to feel awful and try to work it out and see if I could reach a conclusion benefiting both parties. But sometimes that isn’t possible.
I’m all for seller protection, and ebay is SERIOUSLY lacking in that dept., but this isn’t a situation that seems to apply, in my opinion. There are great arguments for both sides. If it weren’t for the ebay platform, I’d say yes, this is the risk of buying. But considering that it is ebay (with the known buyer protection), it is contractually not the risk of buying.
Plus, you should insure your package for damages when shipping anyway. So the seller can/should cover himself there.
I had a japanese order opened recently by customs. Its just an unfortunate part of the landscape as a buyer. This inherently isn’t the sellers fault. The partial refund option is very generous. Hopefully ebay somehow rectifies this as its customs fault.
You can not insure the package from custom opening, that is the only thing at no one have control over.
@kemost , if customs opens the box and damages the product, it should count as damage, and as you insure against damage and loss, it should apply.
I agree with @brendantheclayboy . In fact this is not up for debate. The burden always lies with the one providing the service and the goods. In this case it’s more difficult because ebay is involved, but in any other regular case, it is the business that is responsible for getting the package delivered to the customer. That’s also why it’s the business that should insure the package, NOT the customer. So that in case of damage or loss, the seller doesn’t lose money. That the buyer shouldn’t lose money for goods they didn’t receive or received damaged is a given. By offering the goods for sale in the first place, the business takes the full risk for any damages or losses, even for those it is not responsible for.
Just looked it up on the internet and this is basically confirms that the buyer has no responsibility for lost packages except for a few exceptions (should also be applicable to damages):
Example 2 (paypal’s statement on such matters):
Ebay’s statement:
So in the end, the seller must take the heat if they decide to sell on ebay and ship internationally. They should also insure the item in full to avoid trouble in cases like this. The buyer should NOT pay a part of the refund if buyer and seller don’t come to a mutual agreement.