PWCC Buyers who instantly re-list the card for double

I mean just because they list it for a price it is not magically the new market value - it´s just your instant option of obtaining it. I get where you´re coming from as it can be annoying to get marginally outbid on something just to find it relisted for double the price, but that´s part of the game. With enough patience you will get the item for fair market value, it just might take a while. And if the item sells, it might indicate that it was a bit underappreciated to begin with.

Interestingly enough, that does happen! For eg, Tim Atwood, who has enough sealed rare video game product that he could destroy the market on some games, has done just that. I recall he sold some sealed Stadium Events games to fellow collectors for bargain basement prices but only under a written contract forbidding them from selling the game for a determinate amount of time–selling them ONLY to TrUeCoLleCtOrs he knew just really coveted the game for their collections. The hate he drew from owners of that game who knew he could (temporarily at least) destroy the value of their games in one mass eBay listing was unreal. I’m sure there are collectors on this forum who could do the same with a few cards–maybe not quite so drastically since the market eventually absorbs them and rebalances–but probably knocking the S Tier rarity values down a few quotients.

I have done this multiple times with success, and sometimes without success.

It’s just matter of perspective. You can look at it like someone holding a card hostage and requesting a ransom of twice the auction price. Or you can look at it like a grown-up who understands markets and realize you can’t do this with every card that goes through PWCC. To do this successfully, you’re making a bet that an auction will end grossly under the market value. The gain for you is the difference between the liquid pwcc price the moment the auction ends and what the market would pay when there isn’t 5000 auctions ending in a 4 hour span.

You’re not making someone pay MORE than what the item is worth, you’re making them pay EXACTLY what it’s worth

9 Likes

How can you rob somebody when they have absolutely 0 obligation to purchase any of these LUXURY goods? A customer has to AGREE to purchasing something at the offered price, it isn’t a mystery to them until they’ve hit Buy.

1 Like

And that is their right, it’s silly to complain about it.

A lot of people, myself included, list cards for way higher than what they will actually sell for. The reason is they garner attention for other listed items and for my profile itself where people can find me on IG or here. I literally just saved $250 on a card I was about to buy anyway because a seller recognized me from e4.

1 Like

I don’t think you understand because you keep saying people are trying to make a quick 20k. Most people that spend 15k on a card typically don’t need money. They usually aren’t trying to sell the card if they list it for a crazy price. They put it up for what it would take for them to sell it without much intention to actually sell the card. They simply list it because they can and they don’t care if it doesn’t sell. I’m sure there are some people that see undervalued or overlooked cards in PWCCs huge blocks that snag up cards for under market and list for much higher because the opportunity is there, but I think most people dropping 15k on a card aren’t doing this.

2 Likes

DM me what you guys want on PWCC

3 Likes

Eh, I can meet you half way. Its a reminder you lost an auction, and who likes that? But alas, you move on and stay on target.

You posted a whiny comment and when you do you are going to get people here to correct you.

There is nothing you can do about it so don’t dwell on it. Find a way to make more money, and be patient as the card will come back up. Just because it is listed at $35k, does not make that the new price. Think of how many people have $15k to throw on a card, and do you think those people don’t try to go for bargains too? We’re smarter than that :wink:

1 Like

@op, since you’re getting dragged so hard and I’m bored, I’ll throw you a bone and point out something that I think might help your case a little.

It seems like all the arguments as to why this is a silly complaint (“it’s a free market,” “imagine telling someone what to do with something they bought,” “you shoulda been more vigilant if you wanted the item,” “sounds like you’re just bitter you didn’t get it,” etc.) are all equally applicable to modern sealed product flipping. Like, the people who figure out when the distributors shelve the product, camp out waiting for them, immediately buy out the entire stock, and then list it on Virbank for double MSRP.

From what I’ve seen, people find this behavior pretty universally abhorrent. What’s the difference? It’s a free market, right? They bought it fair and square; it’s their property now, and who are we to tell them that scalping it for double MSRP is an asshole move? Are people more entitled to get stuff they want on the primary market than the secondary market, for some reason?

1 Like

I don’t find this behaviour abhorrent at all because I completely recognize that these are analogous situations. It’s the same thing. Product is available below market value, so people take advantage of the temporary inefficiency in the market. The only real distinction is an emotional one, where people see modern product as some sort of common good or that children are disproportionately affected.

There’s a lot more people who are casually interested in modern and just conflate what the value of the product is with what Wal-mart can get away with selling it for while still making a profit. A causal person doesn’t care about the difference and just wants to be upset about something. It’s the same warped perspective that OP has here, that resellers make you pay MORE than what a product is worth, when in fact they just make you pay EXACTLY what it’s worth.
And I get why it can be frustrating. No one wants to pay more for something. But it really comes down to a perspective. You can look at it like someone is making you pay more for an item OR you can look at it like someone else jumped on an undervalued item faster than you did. One of those is a nuanced and thought out perspective and the other is better for getting clicks on a youtube video.

7 Likes

Extremely upsetting thread to read, in my opinion. This conversation always makes me feel like a space alien who just “doesn’t get it.”

I fully acknowledge and support people’s right to do what they want with what with what they own. I fully support someone’s freedom to engage with something on a purely transactional level. There is nothing “wrong” with people doing this. I have said before that I have bought cards just to flip them, I have listed cards much higher than the going price, and I wouldn’t have been able to afford a lot of what I own had I not at times treated the hobby like a business opportunity.

However, someone who wants money and someone who wants cards have different goals. There is tension between a buyer and a seller due to these different goals. Just like it is totally within someone’s right to sell for whatever they want, it is totally within someone’s right to react and respond to them doing it. Of course I am going to be upset if I as a buyer miss out on an auction by $25 and see the same card immediately relisted for $500 more. That could have been my card. Now not only did I not get that card, but the price is creeping even further away from me. Of course that sucks. Of course I would dislike that experience. Why shouldn’t someone dislike being on this side of the experience?

When I flip cards or jack up my asking prices, I do so knowing that the money has to come from somewhere. It doesn’t just appear out of nowhere. And as happy as I am to get $700 for a card I paid $400 for, I have also been the buyer who has to pay $700 for a card that was $400 a few months ago. I feel like everybody has. When I’m the seller it feels good, when I’m the buyer it feels bad.

I would expect “making lots of money selling a card” and “missing out on a card while other people make lots of money” would be pretty universal experiences. I feel like it’s entirely reasonable to enjoy the first feeling and dislike the second. The fact something is someone’s right to do just… doesn’t matter to me at all. It is entirely irrelevant to me. Of course it is. How does that matter to how it makes someone feel?

I support the right for people, including me, to sell cards for whatever they want. It also sucks to see cards you want creep in price and not be able to afford them. These two things can coexist, can’t they?

1 Like

Yes, an action and an opinion on it can exist at the same time. But people have two choices: pay at market price or above to secure the card or sulk in self-pity while your competition outbids you.

5 Likes

exactly right, having the ability to recognise and change your illogical and emotional responses which have no other purpose than to bring you down is a skill more people need to work on!

I just can’t fault people for having an emotional response to something they are really invested in. Certainly acceptance is necessary to have longevity in this hobby, especially at this point of its maturation, but I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable about reacting emotionally to your experiences with the hobby. I think it’s normal for people to have opinions on the status quo and their interactions with the market and it doesn’t faze me at all.

My investment in Pokémon is quite emotional and I care a lot about it and my collection. My time with the cards will always be characterized by the joys and disappointments, and the highs and lows, of the pursuit and acquisition of the cards I care about. This has been true for me for ten years. So it doesn’t seem unusual to me that someone would be in a pissy mood sometimes when they’re struggling to keep up in a competitive market. I can’t deny someone that.

1 Like

This thread is me, I always list my PWCC stuff at crazy prices

You know why?

Because it works, hehe

1 Like

I have no issues with scalpers. I bought almost all of my sealed products from local scalpers. Sometimes, they sold me products at even lower prices than Pokemon center. Maybe those were not popular products.

I think everyone here can understand the emotional frustration of losing an auction, especially if the winner is just looking to flip.

I think the reason there is little sympathy to be found on e4 is that most members here understand that getting upset and frustrated over the situation is unproductive. If you instead accept the reality of the situation and try to understand what happened, it puts you in a better position next time you’re in a similar situation. Or you may even learn a new strategy from the other person so that you can put yourself into a better financial position for the next time you want to buy something.

The difference between people who dwell in their negative emotions and the people who can learn from this experience is what separates the people who rise to the top from the people who stay stagnant. While it may feel good to commiserate, I personally would rather share a perspective that I believe would help someone grow. Don’t confuse a lack of sympathy for no sympathy, it’s tough love.

10 Likes

I think this is a super fair, reasonable, and appropriately nuanced take. My “maybe you’re a hypocrite” take sort of falls apart when the response is “yeah, those are the same, I don’t have a problem with that either” hahaha. I concede, although I was admittedly mostly just trying to stir the pot and provide an alternate viewpoint.

That said, although “abhorrent” is probably too strong a word, the prevailing sentiment among the greater Pokémon TCG community (not necessarily E4, but certainly less niche spots like Virbank) is very visibly anti-scalper. People get super worked up about modern product scalpers and I rarely see people defending it or justifying it in a similar fashion as many of the replies in this thread do; those that do usually get brutally ratioed. I haven’t seen as much anti-scalper talk on E4, so perhaps it’s not as prevalent here… In which case, again, y’all aren’t hypocrites after all. (:

1 Like

You can all blame admiral and his 15k bulbasaur sale for that.

If he can sell something for 3x the actual market value, then so can we.