Those were PSA 9s I once had:
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Looking forward to seeing everyone’s PSA 10 reholders soon!
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What about loose case PSA 10’s? Would they count?
I have 73662747, it’s done for. It’s obviously a bit of a nuanced thing, though it could fit the criteria of a graded card that would never hit the same grade if reholdered/sent to another house.
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There are stronger 9s than those two cards for sure, but if you’re confident that the cases have not been tampered with then I’d say that yes, those are average/lower end PSA 9s. That’s assuming no other visible damage is present on either card. There are also weaker 10s than your Venusaur and Scizor.
Their public grading scale standards/definitions are written in terms of old “wax pack” sports cards because they’re a sports card grading company. I know that is an obvious statement, I’m just highlighting the fact that their “professional” opinion on the cards they encapsulate is subjective to the person flipping through the stack that they were assigned during their shift.
TL;DR: I’d personally be happy with them as I know that WOTC holofoils are hard to keep clean.
That’s super helpful, thank you.
I honestly would’ve assumed visible holo scratches are basically a hard “no” for PSA 10s, so it’s kind of wild to hear there can be weaker 10s than the two PSA 9s I posted.
I’ve got ~250 PSA 9s and these two are probably my weakest, so it’s a relief to know they’re still within a “normal” PSA 9 range
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Here’s the most recent example of a weak WOTC PSA 10 that came to mind:
Check the top/right side edges. Zoom ins on the holofoil scratches were first noticed here:
It’s more of a subjective “spectrum” IMHO, versus a range.
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@CR4WD4UNT @Paulkemon How do you know if the scratches are on the holo or on the slab based on the scans?
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Holofoil cards: Check the entire face, especially borders. That Greninja up there has a pretty scuffed case. Scratched holofoil cards will reflect light in a similar/identical way during a scan as they would when raw. The light source on a scanner is usually pretty intense as the light typically needs to be reflected.
Super basic explanation, each scanner could be different, if you personally have a scratched case then hold it beside your Venusaur or Scizor and compare what you see. Case scratches are usually a bit more muted in a scan (does depend on the depth of the gash). This has to do with the way a scan is performed vs. a photo or a visual inspection in-person.
Non holofoil cards/card backs on any card: Cardstock scratches can vary but they’ll either maintain surface colour with an obvious difference in surface level or they will present as white since the innards of the cardstock ply/opposite ply (layer(s)) has/have been exposed. PTCG cards are usually 2 ply with an adhesive layer between. Sometimes, the center core is exposed as well. The ink around the scratch (gash) will usually be glossy enough to reflect light around the gash as well, sort of giving it a “haze” effect sometimes.
Either way: if the scratch goes past the card/you see scratches elsewhere on the case that aren’t in the card portion of the case, it’s likely pretty scratched all over. Easiest way to tell.
Also: check out how dusty the Greninja is. Huge issue with PSA especially, they don’t wipe their work areas/scanner glass down. This dust and debris can and will mark up a case before you’ve even opened it from PSA’s return box.
Edit to add images;
These four pictures show two of my PSA cards with scratched cases. The first card (grey border DPt-P promo) is a holofoil card without scratches on the actual card. The second is a non-holofoil card in the same state. Notice the shadows that the scratched cases impose/cast on the cards themselves:
Here is what a scratched WOTC holofoil and non-holofoil look like without a plastic case on top:
Notice how the holofoil reflection changes when I switch camera angles on Kangaskhan. It’s less apparent on Shuckle but it does still show some difference in reflection. I added a bit more info further up top as well to speak on this. Grading company slab scans will usually present these scratches on the cards in the same way that the “overhead” angled photos do here.
Both Kangaskhan and Shuckle under a “slab” (booster pack display case):
First Kang. image was with flash as well to add more of a “scanner” simulation.
Hopefully, you can make out the existing card surface scratches on either card as well as the case scratches as they appear on top of the card surface by comparing this slideshow with the other two.
To drive it home: the polymers used in card grading/storage are typically always much more dense than cardstock could ever hope to be. This is true for PTCG. A scratched case may give an impression of a Holofoil scratch but they don’t always reflect light the same way as a result of what I’m trying to say here.
The scans that grading companies upload to their sites are also typically good enough to make this differentiation, using what I said above. I understand that scans aren’t photos and they’re also performed on a strictly level + horizontal plane, but the methods still stand. It does take a bit of practice if you’re new to it but hopefully there was something in this post that helps the situation become much more clear.
I don’t mind cracking a cheap slab to prove this point with PSA’s plastic but I’d ask to wait until I find one I both want and is cheap enough to just double down on what I’m trying to say here, haha.
It can be hard sometimes. Knowing the specific card helps as well. Apologies if this is way too much info/etc but if there was a true TL;DR: it just takes experience and practice. Sometimes it’s obvious and sometimes you’ll end up with a card you feel is misgraded.
I’m less worried about the holo scratches and more concerned with the edge wear that goes as far back as Blaine’s hairline 
I think the majority of the artbox scratches are on the case for Greninja, but yeah the whitening isn’t good at all.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all of this up and for putting together the comparison photos, I really appreciate the effort.
I think I understand the points you’re making and the theory behind how slab scratches vs. holofoil scratches behave under scanner light. That said, in practice I honestly struggle to reliably differentiate between the two from scans alone.
Quite often I’ll look at a scan and think the surface looks completely clean, only to notice scratches once I have the card in hand and move it under light from different angles. Other times it’s the opposite: I see what looks like scratching in the scan and then can’t find anything at all when inspecting the card in person.
There are definitely cases where a scratch is obvious both on the scan and in hand, but so far I’ve been pretty unlucky when trying to judge this consistently from images alone. I suspect that’s just something that improves with more experience and exposure, as you mentioned.
Either way, thanks again! The explanation and visuals were genuinely helpful and gave me a better framework for thinking about it.
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I can actually live with edge and corner wear, and I can also live with very faint surface scratches that are only visible from a specific angle under good light.
What still bothers me a bit are deeper scratches, or cases where the color saturation looks noticeably lighter. Hopefully I’ll adapt to that at some point as well. It was similar for me with edge and corner wear: in the beginning I found it awful, and now I don’t really care anymore.
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No problem, I’m sorry that I couldn’t really give a definitive/better answer.
At least you seem to agree that the answer to your initial question is rooted in a “case-by-case basis” approach, both literally and figuratively. That’s really the main point I’d want you or anyone to extrapolate.
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Sure, but to keep it on topic of the thread the point is that it is no longer is gem mint by that point and it graded a 10. I think that, while I’m still in the boat on little to no whitening or edge wear doesn’t kill the card for me the greninja gold star I posted has edge wear on the whole bottom and left side of the card. And 3 out of 4 of the corners are pretty heinous with the fourth being not as bad but still pretty bad. There’s no world where I would buy that card that graded as a 10 with the back side looking like that
And you’re right, sometimes scratches can be taken admissible without it being a real aesthetic problem, but the back of that greninja card is objectively not a 10.
Way overgraded 
I would bet money that card has been cleaned and pressed. Aside from the holo scratches (which I truly do not believe are on the PSA case), the back of the card has a slightly odd texture, that looks like it went through the process of dehumidification and pressed. Like what Kurt’s Card Care does. It changes the way the back texture reflects light ever so slightly. It is like a very subtle pitting on the back.
You can see it on this cleaned card:
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