I need some expert/personal opinions/experience on a discussion I am having among friends. There is a card available from Neo Destiny, Shining Celebi (pic below). It is being sold as a massive error card and for good money since missing its holo pattern. It is the identical error as the thread attached below just a different pokemon.
Now here is the debate among friends, is it real. If the below Zard is real, why not. Then someone mentions its possible due to print method the holo is on TOP of the card in Neo Destiny Shining’s therefore is removable… that hurt my head to think about but thus why I am posting here. Could someone remove the holo and not damage the card or leave a trace of the work? To add to it they claim they have been faked before and CGC/PSA will not even grade them anymore.
So, is it possible to remove the holo from a Shining card, is the holo on top? Thank you for the opinions.
Im not aware of any way to remove the foil. It is laid on top of the card and i would imagine a perfect removal would be extremely lengthly and require alot of effort. I wouldnt suggest buying the card online because thats asking for problems in my opinion. Holding it in hand would be the only reliable way to authenticate. If someone stripped the foil in a clean manner on one of these, great job to them. Would love to see how its removed.
This was my first thought, even if possible its mind blowing not leaving a trace. I would need to confirm that the major graders stopped auth. them. If that were true, how could anyone ever buy one? Heck even one already graded is in question.
I wouldn’t say don’t buy it, but I wouldn’t recommend purchasing it if it’s in a slab or if it is online. If you can’t hold the cardboard, you can’t really check it. I know everyone worships CGC and PSA but i dont have much faith in them for authenticating. Both have a reputation for authenticating stuff they shouldnt, and when it comes to oversight and slabbing things like fake 1st edition stamps. Far more respect for CGC though, i feel they try harder than PSA.
We do have a video as well, I mean it looks 100% legit as a pokemon can be. The only stump now is can the cold foil stamp be removed? Time will tell, have to email cgc/psa.
I’m not familiar with the foiling of the Shinings, but even if the foiling is on top of the other ink layers, it should probably be under the superficial gloss layer that exists on all cards. If they were to somehow remove the top foil, the gloss layer should probably irrevocably disrupted/absent. This could be something to look for, if you’re concerned about some unknown technique that can remove the foiling.
Excellent point, so for sure the gloss layer would be over the foil not glossed then stamped? I ask because the known incomplete foil errors dont seem to show gloss on the incomplete portion. So if layed first and then stamped the missing stamped portion should be gloss?
You’d have to ask someone with a Shining card to check I would imagine so though, as the gloss layer is probably meant to be a protective layer. But this is really beyond my understanding of how these are printed.
I think your assumption is right. I would expect, if the card is glossed first and then foiled, then the card lacking the foil due to factory error should probably have the gloss layer on the art where the foil should be. Actually, even if it’s the opposite (foiled first then glossed), the gloss layer should exist on the art. Do the other incomplete foil errors very obviously not have foil over the art? You’d almost have to have the card in hand, or have a very thorough video of the person moving the card around under a strong light to really check the gloss layer, I think.
Unfortunate that the video doesn’t exist anymore, but I was looking for a similar thing when an unlimited L1 Crobat and Typhloision Prime showed up earlier this year. The owner showed a good, close-up video of the card tilted at different angles in the light, and there didn’t seem to be a break in the gloss or how the light reflected near where the 1st edition stamp should be (if they happened to have found a technique to remove the stamp), suggesting (but not proving) no funny business.
Never really checked out a shiny in person, does the background portion also have shine? I feel like the error one has a slightly different surrounding background than what I see online
The shining layer on Neo Destiny shining cards is not like a sticker that you can pull off. If you were to slide your finger across the artwork, you can hardly tell the difference between the normal card texture and the foiling. There isn’t a huge raised/embossed feel to it. Any removal would severely damage the card.
I went down a rabbit hole of how one could do it, watched many old women foiling lol And removing foil. I agree I just cannot fathom removing it and not leaving a trace of it. Erasers, brushes lightly of alcohol etc on a Pokemon card would likely leave damage. But anything possible if someone really wants to but even still I cannot see it happening. Now if grading companies wont grade them anymore it would indicate there was a way. Time will tell. Thank you
I would imagine so though, as the gloss layer is probably meant to be a protective layer. But this is really beyond my understanding of how these are printed.