That is relative though. We are talking about cards coming out of booster packs, not cards given out in a contest or a trophy card.
The odds of pulling a moonbreon are lower than shining pokemon, crystal pokemon and pokemon ex. Alot of those cards it would take 1-2 boxes to pull. Moonbreon your looking at quite a few booster boxes, upwards of 3 cases. Your really underestimating its rarity for a card that comes out of a pack. All the modern alt arts are not easy to pull, not to mention you still occasionally run into surface issues, centering, etc. There is just alot graded since more people know about grading than they did back in the day. If grading was as popular now as it was back in the day, the pop reports on all the vintage cards would have been stupid high compared to now but nobody really graded their cards for the most part hence the lower pops.
I understand where you’re coming from because in the context of set cards, the alt arts are more rare than any other card in the set. But you also have to consider just how many boxes and individual packs of Evolving Skies were produced and opened. Evolving Skies was released two years ago and there are already over 10K Moonbreons graded by PSA alone, That’s not counting BGS or CGC or all of the copies opened by regular people and put into a binder or their pants pocket.
So yes, it’s much harder to pull a Moonbreon than most other set cards and that (along with it’s popularity) reflects in the price. A set card will never be truly rare (in the context of all Pokemon cards) because they are mass produced, intended to fill up shelves at every Walmart and Target in the US.
Sure but also keep in mind that people are grading cards more now than ever. Imagine if people had the same thought process with the original sets and what the pop report would look like. And people are also sending their best copies to PSA so the pop report is going to show more 10s than not 10s. Even if say back in the day everyone was grading even all their neo genesis card, the pop report would probably show more 10s with that set if grading was as popular back then as it is today even with set with printing defects (in this case print lines).
If we are using the same logic with the older cards, then by that logic nothing would ever be rare. We have to use some metric to determine what makes something rare, which in this case is how many packs does it take to get X card. There isnt any other metric you can go by to determine rarity with cards coming from boosters.
I’m kinda confused as to what this thread is about… Are we asking why Naked Misty has had consistent popularity, or are we asserting/positing a reason for it’s popularity? I remember back in middle school when this thing was new, that we talked about the “naked misty” card. As teenage boys, with dial-up internet, there was not much access to stuff, so I get it. Reading Maxim magazine to understand girls. Stashing playboy mags under the bed… You know. teenage boys now have waifu cards, so I don’t get the mystery as to why it’s impulsively alluring. (snarky mode disengaged.)
But from a mythology standpoint, banned cards have always had appeal to collectors, whether because of things like the over-censorship of yugioh card arts, 4Kids American localizations, and Sabrina’s middle finger, or the fact that we’re often drawn to things others don’t want us to have. It’s like a challenge, and if not morally problematic, attaining a commercially restricted item, like the “naked Misty”, or the porygon episode of pokemon is enticing!
Yeah im not sure how old you were when you got into Pokemon but what your talking about is far from what I experienced. In elementary school we were not looking at playboy. Considering that Ash himself was only 10, putting him the 5th grade, thats not really the age puberty hits and by middle school most people I knew who were hitting puberty did not care about Pokemon at that point.
There is alot of things that are morally problematic with “banned cards” but thats a whole other conversation. I think the hype beyond Sabrina’s Gaze is even worse since shes just holding a poke ball and not actually giving the middle finger.
This is a textbook example of “moving the goal posts”, for those who are into debate. When you open with some argument, and people correct you with objective information, and then you change the angle.
The goalposts have been moved so many times that by the latest point of this conversation it is not about the origin anymore.
Regarding the latest logical fallacy, that OP ironically used as an indirect statement, bringing up that people didn’t grade 25 year old cards 20 years ago means nothing. It would be an entirely different hobby now if they did. People played with cards back then, they didn’t keep them in perfect condition from the onset. The mindset was a different universe then, which has led to something you are missing about old cards. Conditional rarity is a big thing with old cards that adds a dynamic to the rarity, scarcity, popularity equation.
Older commons theoretically printed the same amount as new commons are conditionally (psa 9, 10) rarer.
There is very little “hype” surrounding the banned cards as much as there is genuine interest in the cards to english speaking collectors. This is what raises their value beyond their other common peers of the time. There is, however, hype surrounding the moonbreon as, in addition to the genuine interest from collectors, there are indeed very many people trying the whole investment route with it, as we have seen so many examples of in the past years.
Im pretty sure I conceded some points so your 100% wrong with moving the goal posts. If I was moving the goal posts I would say everything is wrong but me but that isnt the case.
Also how you can say that moonbreon isnt any genuine interest in it either? Even before the price went up to 500-600, it was around 200-300, which is pretty high for a modern card, higher than any other chase card in the last few years. All of the modern alt arts are rare, just some are less wanted than others. Even Ice Rider and Single Strike Urshifu alts have more value than alot of modern cards.
I say the banned cards have buttloads of hype and not real interest behind them since if you look at what they were worth not even a few years ago, they werent worth alot of money. You had Sabrina’s Gaze for selling for as low as 8 dollars in a PSA 10 a few years back and i wouldnt be shocked if the person didnt even pay for it. Alot of those cards were just not that wanted and werent that rare for a while.
And also them being regular commons is relevant. If Misty’s Tears was a foil, that would be a gamechanger, but its not. Its not a foil and it came in a starter deck. If you look at the prices of Gyarados and Mewtwo from Base, they are worth less than alot of the other holos even in spite of being very popular pokemon because…they came out of a starter deck. A card being from a starter def makes it not as valuable as it could be.
Reason I bought that Misty card is because I used to live in Spain back in the late/early 90’s, nudity in general was way more acceptable than in the US. I was 5/6 years old & drew a naked woman in class, I went to an all English school, my mom got a call from the teacher expressing concerns of my ART, my mom replied saying that I could draw whatever the fuck I wanna draw, he’s expressing his art & interest at that moment.
So obviously when I heard of the background on these banned cards, specifically Misty’s card, I had to get it. It represents something, has meaning.
Im going to make an unpopular opinion here. The demand for Moonbreon is completely artificial. About 90% of people that own the Moonbreon see it as an investment and are told by fellow stonkers that it will be worth many times more in the future while it is already priced like it as a really rare 25 year old card whereas just 10% like the card.
Hype means temporary or new demand. All of the banned cards mentioned have been popular forever. I remember a family friend in 1999 having naked misty and Koga’s gym trick. Everyone wanted to see them because they were banned. They have been popular from the jump!
Can you prove some proof behind that? That seems like a strong opinion to have without any evidence to back it up. I dont think umbreon should be 500-600 raw but the original price point around release of 200-300 seems reasonable when factoring in the amount of packs it takes to get one.
One of a few instances. So I guess not 100% wrong.
This is your inexperience in the hobby talking. NO japanese set cards were worth anything prior to 2021, when the people who came into the hobby from 2020 onward discovered there was more than WOTC base thru neo. As in, specifically, art exclusives from their favorite, nostalgic era. This is the natural progression for collectors in a hobby who are interested and here to stay.
Yes I totally dont understand rarity. A card that came in 2 copies out of a starter deck should be worth as much as a modern full art secret rare that takes 400-500 packs to get. Forgive me your hindness for not having the level of your intellect.
