I cracked my PSA 9 shadowless Charizard.

[britishcolumbiazards]

@chiefmacky

We should not stretch the meaning of the word “chemical” outside of the context in which it was used for this particular scenario.

If people still want to use substances that could potentially cause long term damage on their cards despite the pros and cons discussed on this thread, then that’s on them.

Edit:
Im curious to know if you’ve tried just simply wiping it with a dry piece of cloth, since that usually does the trick. Unless its a really greasy mcdonalds fingerprint?

Could have been Burger King, maybe even KFC. Was hard to tell tho. I could have just tried licking it off to see if I could taste where it came from.

Edit: The chemicals in my saliva though may have done some serious damage.

[chiefmacky]

@britishcolumbiazards

@chiefmacky

We should not stretch the meaning of the word “chemical” outside of the context in which it was used for this particular scenario.

If people still want to use substances that could potentially cause long term damage on their cards despite the pros and cons discussed on this thread, then that’s on them.

Edit:
Im curious to know if you’ve tried just simply wiping it with a dry piece of cloth, since that usually does the trick. Unless its a really greasy mcdonalds fingerprint?

Could have been Burger King, maybe even KFC. Was hard to tell tho. I could have just tried licking it off to see if I could taste where it came from.

Plot twist: he was scratching his butt before leaving that fingerprint. In hindsight, that windex cedar scent doesn’t seem so bad now.

[KingPokemon]

@gottaketchumall

…

I wouldn’t personally value a windexed card any less than an exactly similar condition water vapor cleaned card.

Well then you must already know that there’s no possibility of damage showing up later from the chemical sediment Windex leaves behind. There’s 3 or 4 of us with backgrounds in chemistry and I assure you, we’d all pick the non Windexed example;)

[britishcolumbiazards]

@KingPokemon

@gottaketchumall

…

I wouldn’t personally value a windexed card any less than an exactly similar condition water vapor cleaned card.

Well then you must already know that there’s no possibility of damage showing up later from the chemical sediment Windex leaves behind. There’s 3 or 4 of us with backgrounds in chemistry and I assure you, we’d all pick the non Windexed example;)

Your background in chemistry isn’t going to help you pick the card out of a deck. That’s all there is too it Gary. Weather you would prefer the windexed card or not, is irrelevant. You would never find it. Because the fact is. There is no traceable residue. Unless maybe you want to whip up some kind of forensic chemical compound that when you spray on a card that has had windex used on it, the card turns green… lol. Argue that all you want. It just won’t happen. Try it out Gary. Watch the liquid evaporate, and ask yourself. Is there any way that anybody (including myself) could ever tell that this card has been cleaned. If the answer is no, well then it’s just a matter of if somebody feels it’s morally right or not, and less about the ramifications of doing this. Because honestly, there are none. But at this point after all these comments, I’m honestly unsure weather I feel it’s morally right anymore. I never gave it any thought at first, but have had plenty of time and comments to read to give me a lot of food for thought. Still doesn’t change the fact that neither grading company will see any sort of residue or evidence of any “alterations”

[acebren]

Some good points made either way which I hadn’t considered before

[KingPokemon]

@britishcolumbiazards

@KingPokemon

Well then you must already know that there’s no possibility of damage showing up later from the chemical sediment Windex leaves behind. There’s 3 or 4 of us with backgrounds in chemistry and I assure you, we’d all pick the non Windexed example;)

Your background in chemistry isn’t going to help you pick the card out of a deck. That’s all there is too it Gary. Weather you would prefer the windexed card or not, is irrelevant. You would never find it. Because the fact is. There is no traceable residue. Unless maybe you want to whip up some kind of forensic chemical compound that when you spray on a card that has had windex used on it, the card turns green… lol. Argue that all you want. It just won’t happen. Try it out Gary. Watch the liquid evaporate, and ask yourself. Is there any way that anybody (including myself) could ever tell that this card has been cleaned. If the answer is no, well then it’s just a matter of if somebody feels it’s morally right or not, and less about the ramifications of doing this. Because honestly, there are none. But at this point after all these comments, I’m honestly unsure weather I feel it’s morally right anymore. I never gave it any thought at first, but have had plenty of time and comments to read to give me a lot of food for thought. Still doesn’t change the fact that neither grading company will see any sort of residue or evidence of any “alterations”

I don’t see anything wrong with removing a fingerprint. But using Windex on the card, which really does leave residue, could cause a problem to arise later. That was my point.

[budget]

If you get rid of fingerprints NCIS won’t be able to find out who tried to kill Special Agent Gibbs!

[joer]

I think the real question here is “Does the windex leave traceable amounts behind to later damage the card over time?”

If the answer is no, then how would anyone ever know the card was cleaned? It would be a graded card like all the others and viewed even as better depending on how it looks. My gut also does not put this in the same league as other “alterations”. Squarecuts, customizations and coloring a card are much worse.

*I don’t agree with using windex for the record, but I’m not going to pretend to be able to tell the difference. Personally , the worst I have ever attempted, is cleaning with a cloth or scraping off dirt.

Very interested to see grade though and watch all hell break lose over a 10! Popcorn ready! Someone call Jerry Springer!

[pfm]

A few comments about some things I thought were funny while reading through this thread:

-Someone referring to the chemicals in windex as “harsh”
-using water is an “organic” method of cleaning cards while windex is “inorganic” but from a chemical perspective, the complete opposite is true
-windex is a chemical but water isn’t

Despite my facetiousness, I understand both sides of the argument here. We don’t really know how windex will impact the card, especially in the long term. BUT if we assume the windex is not going to react with the ink of the card, I have a very difficult time seeing the difference between using water or windex. The truth is I have no clue what windex will do to a card.

But all this talk about chemistry… how about we actually apply the scientific principles behind chemistry and perform an experiment. So I got a card and put it in windex for 12 hours. I can’t really run a 20 year experiment to see the effect of long term exposure but if there is a chemical reaction between the windex and the card, the amount I’m applying here should make it happen a lot faster. Here’s a imgur album with some images:

imgur.com/a/onGIpQd

The results were as follows:
-the card was waterlogged and curved
-vertical holo damaged appeared, very likely from the extreme curving
-card ink appears totally unaffected
-holo appears unaffected outside the vertical lines
The card layers separated. The black core was exposed and was bleeding black ink. I’m not sure of this was from the water in the windex or the other chemicals. Repeating the experiment with a plan water bath would answer this.

In summary: here is evidence that windex does not dissolve the ink on the card. Holo is also most likely unaffected. I would definitely keep the windex away from the edges of a card and this is potentially a good tip for water cleaning too.

I hope this was interesting. 1 like = 1 prayer for the venomoth

[KingPokemon]

Do you have a pic of the Windex bottle front?

[pfm]

@KingPokemon

Do you have a pic of the Windex bottle front?

I meant to add that too because there are for sure different types of windex. Here’s the bottle and (extremely vague) ingredients list:

imgur.com/a/6dVaK7Z

“Original with ammonia-D”

[opmystic]

@acebren

Some good points made either way which I hadn’t considered before

Yeah, agreed! Very interesting points from both sides

[gottaketchumall]

@pkmnflyingmaster I literally had windex on my shopping list for today so I could do the same thing! Didn’t have any on hand. With my science-y background I had it all laid out to do the water test alongside from the start. For funsies I will also be testing some scarier “chemicals” (this is where you go “ooooh” and “ahhhh”). I even have multiple kinds of water from De-ionized (ions are scary), plain old well water and city water, because as most living in Flint Michigan should know water is never just water.

I’ll post pictures too in the next couple days.

[KingPokemon]

@pfm

@KingPokemon

Do you have a pic of the Windex bottle front?

I meant to add that too because there are for sure different types of windex. Here’s the bottle and (extremely vague) ingredients list:

imgur.com/a/6dVaK7Z

“Original with ammonia-D”

Ammonia is “corrosive” and causes a chemical reaction. A corrosive substance will damage or destroy other substances, over time, with which it comes into contact. It is also abrasive.
I looked up to see what the makers recommend their product be used on. It said: “Windows, Mirrors, Sealed Marble, Sealed Granite, Stainless Steel, UV-protected windows, Factory-installed low-E coated windows, Glass top stoves, Glass shower doors, Glass frames and other glass décor, Bathroom fixtures like those made of chrome, Lead or flint glass, Plexiglas®*, Lucite®*, Tile, Plastic, Vinyl, Aluminum.”
I don’t see paper anywhere.

Knowing those facts, if you decide to use it on your Pokémon collection it’s fine. Please don’t trade or sell any to me lol.

It’s important though to go into things with your eyes wide open:)

[nanger9]

I agree with Gary. If you decide to use a synthetic cleaning agent like windex, please disclose it if you intend on selling those cards so some of us can avoid buying them.

[opmystic]

IS there anything that can remove a finger print without the potential of causing damage to the card in the future?

I still remember being pissed when I sent in a pack pulled 1st edition Sabrina’s Gengar and it came back a PSA 9 with a big fat kentucky fried finger print that the grader left on it. Luckily I have the card in a 10 now but still would have come in handy back then.

[kangaroochief]

@britishcolumbiazards

@kangaroochief

What’s BGS?

It’s one of the two big grading companies. The other being PSA. My experience has been amazing. They are incredibly easy to submit to, and offer great submission costs and turn around times. They also guarantee all of their turn around times, and often beat them. PSA no longer guarantees their times, even though you’re paying for a card to be graded in that period. They often run longer than the timeline that they advertise to have them graded by. BGS is also the leading card grading company in both Magic and Sports cards. What I like so much about them is that they offer an option for a 9.5 grade which is wonderful because it bridges the gap in between 9 and 10. A solid sub BGS 9.5 can very often be crossed to a PSA 10 if that’s what somebody wanted to do. In my experience a PSA 10 card can be either very weak or very strong, but often doesn’t fluctuate much in price. Where as you know exactly what you’re buying with a card that has the sub grades shown. (Centering, Surface, Corners, Edges). Many collectors on here will really try to put a damper on BGS as a grading company because the majority of there investment is in PSA. (My opinion). But both companies have plenty to offer. PSA 10 is beautiful too!!

DO you think that the same card would be worth more graded with PSA (presuming equivalent grades) since people are more comfortable with it? (fits in with their collection ect)

[britishcolumbiazards]

@kangaroochief

@britishcolumbiazards

It’s one of the two big grading companies. The other being PSA. My experience has been amazing. They are incredibly easy to submit to, and offer great submission costs and turn around times. They also guarantee all of their turn around times, and often beat them. PSA no longer guarantees their times, even though you’re paying for a card to be graded in that period. They often run longer than the timeline that they advertise to have them graded by. BGS is also the leading card grading company in both Magic and Sports cards. What I like so much about them is that they offer an option for a 9.5 grade which is wonderful because it bridges the gap in between 9 and 10. A solid sub BGS 9.5 can very often be crossed to a PSA 10 if that’s what somebody wanted to do. In my experience a PSA 10 card can be either very weak or very strong, but often doesn’t fluctuate much in price. Where as you know exactly what you’re buying with a card that has the sub grades shown. (Centering, Surface, Corners, Edges). Many collectors on here will really try to put a damper on BGS as a grading company because the majority of there investment is in PSA. (My opinion). But both companies have plenty to offer. PSA 10 is beautiful too!!

DO you think that the same card would be worth more graded with PSA (presuming equivalent grades) since people are more comfortable with it? (fits in with their collection ect)

That’s not a simple question to answer. Simply because BGS offers a 9.5 grade and PSA does not. Quick answer? No. Because a PSA 9 is (usually) worth less than a BGS 9.5, and a BGS 10 is (usually) worth more than a PSA 10.

[kpod]

@kangaroochief

@britishcolumbiazards

It’s one of the two big grading companies. The other being PSA. My experience has been amazing. They are incredibly easy to submit to, and offer great submission costs and turn around times. They also guarantee all of their turn around times, and often beat them. PSA no longer guarantees their times, even though you’re paying for a card to be graded in that period. They often run longer than the timeline that they advertise to have them graded by. BGS is also the leading card grading company in both Magic and Sports cards. What I like so much about them is that they offer an option for a 9.5 grade which is wonderful because it bridges the gap in between 9 and 10. A solid sub BGS 9.5 can very often be crossed to a PSA 10 if that’s what somebody wanted to do. In my experience a PSA 10 card can be either very weak or very strong, but often doesn’t fluctuate much in price. Where as you know exactly what you’re buying with a card that has the sub grades shown. (Centering, Surface, Corners, Edges). Many collectors on here will really try to put a damper on BGS as a grading company because the majority of there investment is in PSA. (My opinion). But both companies have plenty to offer. PSA 10 is beautiful too!!

DO you think that the same card would be worth more graded with PSA (presuming equivalent grades) since people are more comfortable with it? (fits in with their collection ect)

If you’re sure the card will get a 10, go with BGS

[chopper]

Did the OP ever get his 'Zard back?