Going back to 2009, I purchased cards that I loved, but when I paid for them I also had the thought that they had a good chance of being worth more in the future.
I wouldn’t have spent as much money as I did on Pokémon cards if I didn’t love them but I also would not have spent as much money as I did on them if I didn’t feel they had potential as an investment.
That being said, there is no doubt that flipping Pokémon cards is not something that works for people in the long-run. And I would also say that people who are buying Pokémon cards with the intention to sell them in a few years are making a big mistake.
As you said, the people in this hobby who have truly profited are those who have held their stuff for a long, long time.
Never in my life have I told a personal friend to invest in Pokémon cards instead of the stock market, bonds, and other assets. And I never would. (Although I have told a couple of very close friends that I spent about $20k for a Pokémon card collection that’s worth over $200k and they’re in awe). If you have no love for Pokémon and just want to make some money, there’s really no reason to invest in Pokémon cards.
But… if you truly love Pokémon cards and want to buy some big name cards while also viewing them as a long-term investment, I think that’s totally fine. As long as the person understand the risks Pokemon cards have compared to other types of investments.
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As a set collector, financials and worth are irrelevant. I do it for the love of collecting and I’ll pay whatever the price is for the cards that I need.
I wish more people shared the same view, as I would say that’s what the hobby is about. As soon as you start thinking about profits and flipping and buying for the sale of investing, then you’re not really in it for the hobby anymore.
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I don’t really agree with most of what’s in the article. It deals in absolutes and makes a lot of assumptions. Seems the goal is to try and dissuade people from ‘investing’ and to undermine folks curious about the long term stability of the hobby.
Financially Smart Collecting - The article can’t decide between paying under market value or above market value.
*“Buy the most for the least amount of money”
“guarantee you will eventually have to pay above market”*
Never does it say to buy cards you like for the value they are worth. You also say that no matter what cards you buy, you will likely not lose money; that is factually incorrect. There are lots of grossly overpriced cards available online - just waiting for an uninformed buyer to get ripped off.
Lots of talk about how collection goals are important. Maybe for you, but not for everyone. Sure, collecting every type of Pokemon or every card from a certain set is cool, but so is having a diverse collection of cards across the Pokemon spectrum.
Investing In Pokemon - Basically everything about this section is wrong, unless you are strictly speaking about short to medium-term investments. $100,000 is an arbitrary number pulled from thin air. Most people don’t invest into their 401K or stock portfolio by dumping all of their capital at once. It’s a slow and consistent drip that builds over time.
Have a few thousand dollars to spend? Tough. If you aren’t buying the high-end trophies or a PSA 10 Zard, you aren’t investing.
Investing is not flipping. Investing is spending money now, with the intention of the value increasing over time. If you buy a card today for $100 and it grows to $200 in 5 years time, that would have been a successful investment, albeit a very small one. This is what most new members asking ::WhatShouldIBuy:: are likely talking about. They want to know if they are spending money on something that is likely to appreciate in value, not what will make them rich in 3 months time. They want some reassurance that they aren’t squandering their hard earned money.
*“Develop exhaustive knowledge…you must know nearly every card”*I very much disagree with this. You don’t need to have extensive knowledge of the Dow Jones to invest money into Tesla. Just like you don’t need to have every unnumbered promo memorized in order to invest $700 on a base holofoil.
The Middle Ground - The middle ground does exist and it’s a wonderful place to be. Buy the cards you like, but also buy the cards you think have a promising future. Spend money where you can, but don’t over extend yourself in the process.
Hold your cards for as long as possible, be a collector first, investor second. Collect assets, but don’t cash them in. It’s comforting to know there is money available, just in case of a life emergency. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket either - property is a great investment. Even if you lose money, you still have a place to live. Can’t live inside a PSA case.
But to tell people you can’t spend, say $500 a month on cards and call it an investment is just wrong. Not everyone has to be an SMPratte or Rudy level of investor/collector to enjoy the hobby, collect wisely and make a few bucks in the process.
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@pokenastic Nothing against you personally but you’re completely missing the point.
I don’t think anyone can construe “financially smart collecting” as going and buying every card you want at eBay BIN price. I thought this was obvious in the post, but financially smart collecting is much less about “market values” and much more about being strategic in where you put your money. The point is that if you don’t want to lose money and have distinct collection goals, focus on them clearly and don’t take too much risk.
You also fundamentally misunderstand investing as a whole. You summed up my point fairly well, but actually it’s even tighter than what you said, PSA 10 Zards are not what I’d consider a good investment. The only items that have been consistently rising have been high-end trophies. If you bought a PSA 10 Charizard back in 2016, four years later it’s worth the exact same. Very different story for Illustrators, Trophy Khan, etc. Not to say it won’t rise in the future, but it is objectively a lower-quality investment. If you don’t have tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend and store, you are not investing in Pokemon. Yes, if your $100 card goes to $200 in five years that’s pretty nice for you, but after fees and inflation you’ve made what, $75? That’s literally nothing. It’s a hard day’s work at federal minimum wage. You also can’t replicate that consistently like a high-value trophy does.
The point about knowledge is also just wrong. I love how you used one of the most volatile stocks in the market as an example for a foolproof investment strategy. This is why hedge-fund managers and wealth management companies make so much money, it is not easy to invest and the best method is often just to pay someone else to do it for you.
The middle ground does not exist. I think you make this point yourself by noting that you can “make a few bucks.” I fully agree with that, it’s possible to buy some set cards and happily watch them go up in value a bit. I certainly enjoy seeing the cards I bought awhile back selling for higher numbers. But the truth is that these returns are negligible and starkly pale in comparison to the returns from actual Pokemon investments.
Overall, my point is not that it’s impossible for your set card purchases to go up in value, but that there’s a big difference between financially smart collecting and investing. They are fundamentally different approaches and people often talk about investing when in reality they just want to buy what they like and be reassured that it won’t lose them any money. And chances are, if you buy smart and focus on your collection goals, the worst case is that you lose a negligible amount of money. You might even make a negligible amount of money!
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For new investors, its crazy how much the market has grown in such a short period of time. I think if youre aware of the market you dont need crazy money to do some damage. The market has exploded and ive never seen anything on this magnitude ever. Even low end investors can make good money now even in a short period of time. You just have to have a keen understanding of the hobby.
For example a little over a year ago if you purchased:
1st ed neo genesis lugia psa 10 (for a couple grand) its now 8k+
1st ed neo genesis typhlosion 17 (for a couple a grand) now its 10k
1st ed Vaporeon jungle holo psa 10 (for $500) its now 2.7k+ (no one I know is willing to sell for less)
No symbol Vaporeon jungle psa 10 (for $300) its now 3k+
Just a small example that if you invested around 4.5k into these cards a little over a year ago and sold them now you would have walked away with around 20k+ in just over a year. These arent trainer cards or promo cards etc… Everyone had the opportunity to purchase these cards at the time. Although difficult to find they were there. There are tons of other cards that are making the same strides especially in sets. Its a great time for investing and collecting.
As a new investor Id personally look into 1st ed graded cards in sets and see what cards are toughest to get and most popular with low pop. If you just go for low pop and not popularity youre most likely gonna regret it. The popularity/ low pop combo is kind of key in popular sets. These cards are slowly disappearing and their prices are dramatically increasing noticeably so.
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Not true, it just takes a lot more work to pull off. Yeah sure it’s a lot easier if you have 100K, but that’s just rudimentary math. Lot easier to make 10K off 100K vs making 10K off $100, duh. But lots of people have done it, including me.
Your tone comes off like an executive at Unilever saying “don’t start a small bar soap business because unless you invest a ton of money in infrastructure like we do making Dove soap, you aren’t investing in yourself.” People can start investing in small amounts, and through hard work and the right spending, get to whatever level they want.
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I’ve made over a million dollars with trophies alone. Literally nothing in this hobby touches them. It’s not an opinion; that is ethans point.
Keep in mind I own everything being discussed and the objective answer is clear as day. If there were a higher margin category I would type that answer. People genuinely cannot separate objectivity from feelings.
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@zap2 You can make an infinite amount of penis emojis and it doesn’t disprove anything. It wasn’t my intention to dick measure. Better investments are an objective provable answer. You can obscure that with irrelevant points like, “lack of liquidity”. Which is ironic because the argument you are trying to make is that people shouldn’t dick measure value, yet you are dick measuring liquidity…
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I don’t get how you can genuinely have fun collecting something when all someone thinks about is how much money you can make or lose when buying a card. Going into debt for a children’s card game is one of the most stupidest thing I’ve ever heard since there are so many better ways to make money. I wonder how many people on this forum that ask “what cards should I invest in” actually like pokemon and aren’t in it trying to flip and get quick money. Collecting is more fun when you don’t think about “investing”.
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That’s why smpratte always says to buy what you enjoy
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That is exactly what op was trying to highlight! Ironically the people who “have made the most” just really like collecting, and naturally doing that over a decade made their purchases more valuable.
I would add that most of the disagreements here are semantics. An actual investor & collector act similarly; they hold cards for a long period of time. Also, the people spending a ton on Pokemon have genuine interest.
The point of this thread was aimed at the get rich quick people that want unrealistic outcomes on everything. And to also highlight if you are waiting 5 years for your $100 card to become $150, you can make that working 1 day at Amazon. Big brain general answer for new collectors: work hard at a job/career, put some money and into conservative investments and mess with pokemon on the side.
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For sure! Everyone has different circumstances and levels of risk appetite. While there is a mathematical margin answer, there is a variety of opportunity in every category, even modern.
There is a ton of variety in Pokemon. I think that point tends to get lost in the fog of “whatshouldibuy”. Most collectors understand whats going on from genuine interest/experience. Basically there is just a misuse of “investing” from new people who just want easy money.
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There is no way to become wealthy quickly (of course, there are exceptions, but most of us aren’t exceptions). It is a tough fact of life. I think we are pressured to make sure that everything we do MUST be productive in some way. Life is too short for that mentality. If spending a large amount of money on Pokemon cards makes you happy and you can afford to do so, then do it! Sure, there may be better ways to spend that money, but the value of pure JOY should not be underestimated. It is okay to buy something because love it even though you may not see any financial return from it. We should not have to justify spending our own, hard-earned money on a bit of what we want by lying to ourselves that we are making an investment. Happiness and enjoyment is enough justification on its own. Maybe actual investing gives you joy! Great! You are probably going about that endeavor a bit differently. However, I get a sense that most of us just want to own these beautiful pieces of art an history.
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No they can’t. I stick by my original statement, you cannot invest in Pokemon unless you have a very significant amount of capital. There is a clear distinction between lower-end assets (PSA 10 set cards) and higher-end assets (trophies). Trophies bring the most returns monetarily and are the most consistent. Currently you cannot access these assets unless you have large amounts of capital.
It’s great that you’ve made some money on cards. A lot of people here have. Most of that comes from grading/flipping deals and not actual investing though. If we’re talking about how to spend $100 on Pokemon and make money through grading and flipping that’s a different discussion (but a somewhat similar answer). And man, the last thing I’m worried about is my “tone!”
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TL:DR I know everyone has said collect what you enjoy a at least a thousand different ways by now. I wanted to connect all the dots and say: Collect what you want AND that is perfectly legitimate. It is 100% okay to spend money on what you love, with no financial return, as long as you do it responsibly.
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From my new, old guy on the block perspective, the more Pokemon “collectors,” the better. There are many equally valid and non-competing points that are masquerading as competing perspectives. Truth is we all want each other here, and the more interest in this “hobby” if I can call it that, the better. Top feeders benefit, middle feeders benefit, and there will be guaranteed “losers” in the equation. It’s amazing how the roles and archetypes generally remain the same from hobby to hobby. I am most comfortable in the video game collecting world in terms of my knowledge base, but make no mistake–while the “investors” do not need “collectors” to thrive, they thrive better the bigger the hobby gets. Sentimentality gets most in the door, but where each goes from there depends upon a lot of things–ambition being not the least of these. But passion and true enjoyment of the thing–even if it’s just the idea of “collecting” or “investing” or “projecting” what cards may increase in value that one enjoys owning, or collecting goals–it’s all the same beast. And it is absolutely this core of individuals who will grow the hobby that everyone will benefit from–EXCEPT those looking to buy most affordably the cards they want most! The common enemy is almost ALWAYS the “investor” just looking to turn a buck who artificially drive all the prices up, keeping the “true collectors” from buying the cards they want. Once this becomes the theme and the reality, everyone will know this hobby has arrived. Or not!