The intertwine between finances, goals, and ego.

I recently read this post on Buyers Remorse.

This post doesn’t specifically pertain to Pokemon but collecting more generally.

This was a really interesting read for me. I saw the recent influx of Pokemon hype, and have always had a love of collecting. It was the exact kind of situation that would entice me down a rabbit hole. I was intrigued and spent a long time learning about the hobby.

I couldn’t get the exact things that I wanted, at least not at prices I was comfortable with. If sellers had been somewhat more flexible with their prices I am sure I would have ended up with (tens of) thousands of dollars worth of cards purely based on the hype. Reflecting on it now I think ‘investment’ was in the back of mind - I’d buy an expensive booster box and it would increase in value over time.

Some time passed, and I was able to think about things more. I did what I suspect many others have done - I invested in another (unnamed) card game. I didn’t collect this game as a child but I watched the program religiously (and loved it) as a kid.

I have invested $4,000 or so at this point, and only recently have I had that ‘wait… hang on a minute’ moment.
I have invested in a number of things in my life. This is not one of them. I have absolutely 0 thoughts or ideas that I am going to make money from collecting, and there is no expectation of returns. That said, I’d like it if my collection retained its value given the concerns outlined below.

I basically dabbled in a bit of everything - chase cards, good looking cards, sealed product etc and whilst I absolutely am enjoying the collecting part of things and can absolutely afford what I’ve spent, I do still find it incredibly difficult noting that it is just cardboard… and that some of my friends/family/colleagues would kill to have $4,000 of disposable income that they would spend on arguably much ‘better’ things.

The main thing that niggles me is that whilst I have that ‘collecting personality’, I hadn’t previously thought of collecting a card game in my adult life. The Pokemon hype has rubbed off on all collectibles, and everything is much more expensive than it was 6 months ago. As such my concerns are compounded - I see peoples collections who have been collecting for years (and were able to get things for much cheaper), want the same (and can afford it (within reason)), but then end up concerned and distressed about my spending.

The thread linked points out that you can just reassess your goals - collect cheaper things etc etc. I absolutely agree - I got 30 cards for $50 many of which I prefer to the ones that individually cost hundreds… but there is still an element of ego. I want to have a cool collection of things that I like, and be able to share it with people in the community who care. Obviously people are more excited about people sharing their collections of chase cards as shown by the storm kicked off by the guy with hundreds of unlimited Charizards recently.

With sealed product (especially in this game), the chances of rare cards are really low. Rare cards are per case so its possible to buy boxes where cases have already had their rare cards pulled. One assumes that these are the boxes likely being resold. So even more so than Pokemon the sealed product market is for a box that whilst it’ll never be opened, and whilst it looks super cool, quite likely has nothing great in it. I overthink things like this and it completely bemuses me.

There is no clear, or definitive question here. Just my mind ramblings, but I’d be very much interested to hear peoples views on the intertwine between finances, collecting goals, and ego.

Thanks

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I think it is all very relative and personal. I’ve been collecting for a long time and so a lot of my collection has been aquired at much cheaper prices than many others who have entered in the last couple of years.

But even then I have spent 13,000$ on just three cards in the past two weeks

If I were to give any advice it would be to collect things that you would have a very hard time wanting to sell. If you then do find yourself wanting to sell it in the future there must be good reason instead of impulse or FOMO.

There are so many amazing angles of collecting in the hobby that all have their high and low ends. Cards, figure collecting, post cards, plushies, art, vintage memorabilia

It can scale as much or as little as you want. I think something people often forget is that the community at large can fish just as much about a very nice Pokemon Center Plush or new affordable promo, as they would about a new multi thousand dollar pick up

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I think you’ve kind of answered your own question. If you’re buying ‘nice’ cards or certain grades just to make your ego feel better then there are bigger issues at play. There is a big trap around people buying and then immediately wanting to show off on IG or the forum or something.

You should look for enjoyment from within and think of it as, would you pay that price and enjoy it if you could never show it to anyone else? I have probably put in well over your amount and only maybe 2 people have seen my collection in the last few years.

It’s good to always take some time before making a purchase, especially if it’s a new chase card or hyped card from a video/post, and think of what you value owning that card to be and where that value intersects with price points. Think of 1st edition vs unlimited cards for example. Outside of shadowless base, the only real difference between most others is just the stamp. Same thing with PSA 10 vs PSA 7-8 cards. All have very high multipliers on cost due to either hype, investing, or sheer quantity and deep pockets of some people. How much do you really value those stamps or super high PSA grades (when they’re in a case and it’s hard to see any minor imperfections that can affect it by 2-3 grades)?

A person near me at work spent $3000 on some huge TV which I think is insane. There are always excessive purchases anyone can make in cards or consumer luxury items. It is also very true that thousands of dollars can literally save someone’s entire life when they’re in a bad financial/job spot or have unexpected health issues they can’t afford. It is entirely reasonable to question your spending if you think that money could be better used somewhere else to improve your own life more, those you care about, or even a good charity. I suggest not putting all your money in cards and finding a balance between your personal disposable income and helping those around you.
PS: You also need to decide if you are a collector, an investor, or a mix and what your goals are overall. Are you chasing a certain % return? Are you maxing out your 401k? Do you have any debt or loans? $4000 is a lot to spend on something like this if you think there are better things you can do to help yourself, your friends, or your family. As with any “investing”, you should only spend that money if you can lose it all in a second and/or never be able to sell these items.

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“collect things that you would have a very hard time wanting to sell” - This is interesting because price does influence my desire to sell. Not the pursuit of profit, but rather how much it cost. I have 5 cards that each cost $10. They look beautiful, and they cost $10. I’d never sell them. I have another card that cost $300. It looks beautiful but its not my cup of tea and it didn’t cost $10. Its almost as though I want to collect but I don’t want to collect anything valuable because then the value takes away from the beauty or other inherent reason for wanting it.

On the flip side, if I only bought beautiful $10 cards, I’d have many more cards but it might not be as exciting. Guess its trial and error.

OOI (feel free not to answer) but what made you want to spend $13k on three cards? The beauty? rarity? they are chase cards? Intrigued.

Interesting. Its less about me wanting to show off, more about me being jealous of not having their collection but simultaneously not being prepared to spend the money (even if i have it) to get it.

But yes, fair points. Noone else has really seen my collection and I still regularly just go and look at them to see how shiny they are :blush:

Regarding grading etc, I have just chosen not to buy graded cards because they are more expensive, and I think the cards look much better in simple cases/displays instead of grade slabs. I guess the only appeal of graded is that sense that in a slab your collection is more likely to maintain a value. Again, not bothered about an increase in value but maintaining value is always good - then I feel less bad about having spent the money.

To be clear. This spending in no way affects my quality of life, or that of anyone around me. I can absolutely afford it, and it is spending that only occurs after all necessary life expenditure. No outstanding debts etc. That said, it is still not an insignificant amount of money. I guess my point is that forums and communities like this are the only place where you can say ‘I spend thousands on cards’ and people wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

Charity is a good example. I already give to charity, but I could give more - I could give the money that I spend on cards. So whilst I enjoy collecting, and it brings me happiness… I still feel bad.

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I have definitely thought about some of the same things from time to time. It’s a good topic to bring up since there are a lot of newer people buying in and others that sometimes seem overly focused on the stonks aspect of this last year and maybe losing sight of what’s important.

The biggest irony is that the people with the best collections are the most private about what they have. These are people who are wealthy enough that they dont need external validation by proxy-flexing their wealth through cards.

The second biggest irony is that people who have amazing collections that aren’t in the highest bracket of wealth almost without exception were buying things when they weren’t as sexy or popular. These are people who were collecting primarily for themselves, since they bought items that could not be used to stroke their ego. In contrast, if you look at the type of people who just bought the hot thing to chase Instagram clout, many have sold their stuff at a fraction of today’s value. Whether it be because they financially overextended themselves or to just make a small profit and use the money to buy the next flexpoint.

My advice is to build a collection primarily for yourself. Buying something to impress other people is just not the recipe to a sustainable collection unless you have a significant amount of disposable income

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Personally when I collect thing, may it be cards or figurines, I never think of these items as investments. I want to buy these items because I enjoy accumulating things that I love. I’m not primarily a PSA collector, (I buy PSA copies of cards I really like) but master set collector. (Cards in binders) With every hobby, it’s great to look at what’s available to you and find/create collecting goals. I have been collecting for a long time, I have cards that would be much more difficult to acquire now. But, hunting down the perfect Ebay listing or saving up for that big purchase is all the more satisfying!

Also, I think it’s important to pace yourself. Pick up a few cards that meet your goals every month, or save up for a larger purchase to fill that last blank space. Don’t burn yourself out too early!!!

To me, when I start thinking about collecting in terms of investment, it takes the fun out of it. I don’t want to make this my side hustle and I don’t want to worry about making a profit. I share photos of my collection because I want to talk with others in the hobby. I could be a weird promo or a big hitter, but I’m always excited to discuss it! When I sell, it’s always to buy different cards, or put that money towards another hobby. It’s rarely to put towards “life money.” (savings, bills, deposits, etc)

I try to avoid hype as much as I can in the TCG community. Right now, lots of people are excited about Rainbow V Max Pikachu and Shiny Charizards, but that’s not my current collection goal. I’ll pick them up eventually, but now isn’t the time for my collection. Collect the things that you’re excited about first and mean a lot to you, and you will be a lot more satisfied with your collection! Choose a favorite Pokemon or a favorite set and start forming goals around that! And also, as others mentioned, you don’t always have to go for the highest grades or that extra stamp. Really, when it comes down to it, find the the pieces that make you the most excited to own them!

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RE the financial side: the thing most people don’t understand is that they see it as wasting money on cardboard rather than (on top of being a hobby), an asset which is more likely to hold it’s value or appreciate than actually waste money.

What better thing would the average person spend that money on? Getting a slightly newer car and then losing it in depreciation?

Everyones lifestyle and situation is different but for me, if I had $10k spending money there is little reason for me to leave it sitting in the bank earning less interest than the inflation rates. I also don’t feel the need to go out and buy a new car or the most expensive phone because I live very conservatively with my 16 year old car and 3 year old phone which give 90% of the same happiness as a new one.

I was fortunate and bought most of my collection 2017, I had been active in the hobby in 2015 so I knew the prices were slowly growing but I honestly didn’t see it as in investment at the time. In the back of my mind I had some thoughts like “one day these $35 base set packs might be $100 in the far future” but never did I expect them to go 20x in 3 years.

I love my collection and it has became a big part of my life but I’m now 50/50 on it also being an investment that I want to hold onto for both nostalgic and financial reasons. Sure it might be cool to cash out half now and buy my dream car to show off, but that would probably be financially really dumb, and I’d rather keep the cardboard. I love the process of collecting and the process of buying and selling to experience more cards whilst growing my collection.

So now I’m in a situation where my cardboard collection has grown in value so much that literally over 95% of my wealth is in it, and TBH I couldn’t really care how ridiculous that must sound to the normal person, because I’m wired different and that’s why I ended up with a six figure asset instead of spending that original investment on a slightly better car and ending up with almost nothing at the end of it. If you enjoy collecting it then you can’t really lose.

Happiness is the only currency that matters

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A lot to unpack there. To keep it short, I focus on how much money I make in the hobby and balance that with my enjoyment. I didn’t keep track for a long time, but I estimate at this point I’m up $4,000-$5,000 while also having about $10,000 in cards I have. The research, bidding, watching every forum, etc… is a labor of love. I have a bunch of cards I really like plus I’ve made a decent amount of money from something I really enjoy. Win win.

People who buy shit to solely flex on IG puzzle me. Impressing strangers just isn’t something I spend a large amount of effort on. I’ve enjoyed meeting some great people through the hobby.

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I have to disagree with one main point: that people on the forum (or abroad) get more excited about the expensive chase cards than the cheaper cards. People on here tend to congratulate people on a big win, and obviously the bigger the price, the harder it is to find, purchase, save up for, mentally conjure up the balls to do it, because as you say, it is cardboard. We do that here with likes. With congratulatory responses and the like. That doesn’t inherently mean that that quantity of people are more excited about those cards, but rather they, in high numbers, are usually more excited about the fact that someone here earned a chase card they have been reaching, and finally won. It is a feel good thing. Of course people are excited about the card itself too, but we are excited about all cards. All the beautiful artwork, all of that. That is what it comes down to. My personal thing is that I don’t care about “chase” cards in the high monetary sense (even though I want some fairly expensive cards because of their art and appeal), or showing off, or running to show anyone here for the reason you outlined. I do show new cards I acquired because there is a camaraderie here because we all mutually love Pokemon TCG and Pokemon in general. This is the best forum because people love the Pokemon and all the cards, with a diverse pool of specifics, but not because there are top tier collections that everyone “ought” to aspire towards. That’s not what it is about to me.

I agree with redsky. Seek enjoyment from within, and you’ll never be let down. And Fazool for saying to buy cards that please you. I would never buy a $1000 card unless I want it. It has nothing to do with its value. Let’s put it this way, I find a card I want, THEN I go look at the price. It is only then that I decide to buy it on the spot, or add it to the list. But either way, I am going to buy it. Finally the day comes when I have saved up for one of those big priced cards because I have wanted it along, because of the card, because of the artwork, its meaningfulness to me, its historical value (not a measurable monetary value, but what it means to me in connection with the games and what I loved about Pokemon and the culture as a kid).

I prefer the $10 cup of tea cards and not the $300 not my cup of tea cards. Don’t be jealous of others’ collections, be happy for them, appreciate what they are giving you here on this forum. They are sharing it with you. That’s part of the beauty of it all here. I love my favorite collection threads and especially their exciting updates.

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You will miss a lot of the ‘best’ items if you think rationally all the time. The more you learn about what you love to collect the more expertise you acquire along the way. Pokemon is all about niches the longer you expose yourself to a niche the more confident you will be in ‘overpaying’ for an item.

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I would agree with what a lot of people are saying here in that you have 3 avenues that you can go about pokemon cards.

1) being a collector and focusing on the happiness it brings not worrying about it as an investment vehicle.

2) Being a collector on part of the stuff you buy and investing in the other parts to sell in the future (changes the intention of your purchases)
3) Using pokemon cards which you may really enjoy as a vehicle through flipping and investing to buy something else that may be more applicable on a daily/useful towards progressing you to other goals.

I think 2 and 3 are somewhat similar but I think really focusing on your happiness and understanding where that comes from is super important for maintaining interest in anything long term. Some people say they find that through the discord, the forum, the actual card in hand, but it’s different for everyone. If things are out of budget and they are not a safe “investment”, it may be an intention to go in with “this will be money that will be hard to recoup”. But its okay to buy things you like, as long as that doesn’t hurt the other parts of your life with your needs and goals. Everything is super personal when it comes to finances so hopefully these variety of perspectives can help broaden your perspective in someway :blush:

I really try to buy the cards I want, but it can be easy to get caught up in hype and boosting your ego. I am certainly proud of my collection and like showing off a bit, but at the end of the day I just want to look at the cards that make me happy. I try to keep this in mind if I find myself drawn to certain hype cards: Am I buying this because I truly love the art or am I buying this just because I want to show I have an expensive card? Fortunately, this does not happen very often. To me, some of the best collections are ones that have a very specific theme or goal that isn’t about profiting. @fourthstartcg comes to mind for this because he collected all of the Japanese original Ex cards PSA 10. The dedication it took for him to get this PSA 10 collection, especially considering he graded the cards himself, is really impressive. It is a really amazing collection that does not include any of the most expensive or most sought after cards in the hobby.

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I’m pretty sure no one cares about the cards I post on my Instagram. I really don’t have the need to show of my cards to get validation from people i don’t even know

@deltazero raises an awesome point and I am honored you remembered my collection goals and its completion!

Other places like instagram/facebook I feel have much more of a “hype” mindset. As others have noted, and as I wholeheartedly second, equating the manifestation of the Pokemon collecting community there with the community at large is just not correct. Here on E4, we certainly appreciate the big-ticket cards and enjoy talking about them. However we’re just as happy to discuss and appreciate cards that are of lesser monetary value. Some of the best collection threads here are from members who don’t spend a lot of money, but focus on collecting all cards of specific Pokemon (e.g. Pikachu, Alolan Vulpix, Gyarados) or lower-graded/binder sets. Obviously we all want to have an impressive collection, but know that impressive is not just about how much money you can spend.

In terms of money, my best advice is always to collect what you want within your means. You will never lose if you pay a price you’re comfortable with on a card you want. I overpay frequently, I get deals frequently, but I’m always happy with spending the amount of money I do. I don’t view it as an investment but developing strong market knowledge is not exclusive to investment. I don’t think I’ve ever bought a card for the sole purpose of “investing,” but I often buy cards that I want for my collection which I feel are likely to rise in value in the future.

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I believe people do care what others post. It’s eye candy in a way.

Trying to please others will only drain your energy, BUT I do feel like we all seek validation one way or another. It’s just natural.

We share photos and update statuses in the hope of getting approved by members in social media; here included. When the “likes” and positive comments flow in we feel happy.

As long as you don’t consider the social media realm as an extension of your identity and get obsessed forcing people to ‘like’ your stuff, you’re doing fine.

Likewise, it’s not difficult to search for instances in your everyday conversations when you want to feel encouraged. Just makes us feel good.

Sorry for the long reply. No harm intended.

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They may be private. Doesn’t mean they don’t need validation for their items or cards or whatever…

Insecurity strikes the rich and the poor.

And people will use material things to gain approval and seek validation from the outside world.

The fact is, expensive items do draw attention, and the more validation the person gets for their behavior the more they want to do it again and often bigger and better. Its a viscous cycle but it temporarily works to soothe the insecure person’s inner state. We see it all the time on YouTube, cable TV, reality shows, forums, etc…

Thank you all for your replies. The different perspectives are very much appreciated.

I think the main takeaways for me are

  • to collect what you want to collect, not necessarily the rarest or ‘best’ cards/boxes
  • to spend only what you are happy to not be able to recoup
  • maybe pace myself more. Yes, perhaps I can buy everything I want right now… but i’d probably feel less bad and get longer term enjoyment from it if i did it over months/years anyway…

I think that some of the people that I follow perhaps simply enjoy collecting more than me and thus their tradeoff for cost/enjoyment is easier for them. I for example would like a sealed collection of all the booster boxes in the set (because it would look cool / make me happy) but I’m simply not prepared to pay the costs that some of them are. I guess some of the appeal is also the idea that they ‘may’ have rare cards in. Which given that this is unlikely (as mentioned in my initial post) is also a turn off.

One thing that is (understandably) underaddressed here though is the financial aspect of all this. Spend within your means (of course), and only buy what gives you happiness, but some cards/products do still cost a significant amount of money. As @shinycards mentions, yes… cars and other ‘things’ that people buy do depreciate/lose value too… so is it simply the case that its your money, and the pleasure you get from collecting makes it worth the cost?

As mentioned in my original post I feel like I have that perfect collectors personality, but didn’t have the foresight to get into it before the hype. I want to get my head screwed on appropriately so I can collect, enjoy me collection, and continue to do so if/when the hype dies down.

I think I’m going to end up heading in the direction of @fourthstartcg, and collect a fun niche set of cards :blush:

Whatever happened to the 2 and 3 sentence posts?

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We be BORED!!! Lol