hmm I might email someone I know who use to work for tpci but he quit this year maybe he has some more info on those items
That would be helpful if you can glean anything from it.
Lots of great opinions so far, so let me pose a question-
If something along the lines of 5-10 WINNER Professor Elm or non-WINNER Rocket’s Mewtwo or Hitmonchan turned up and was legit, would that be something along the lines of the most valuable cards?
In short, No. There are already examples of something similar to this. One of them is the misprinted WB promos. There are around 30 of each card. There are cards with the same or more copies that earn $2,000. A perfect example is the 9th Lucky Stadium. The WB cards have less copies than the 9th Stadium but they only realize prices in the hundreds.
From what I have heard from other serious collectors, as well as myself, that is currently what people would pay for the Distributor cards. The number of copies is not always the determining factor of value. I think the main ingredient to a cards value is its “uniqueness”.
For example, a 9th lucky stadium has loads of unique elements to it. It is the only other bi-lingual card besides Exeggutor, it has the unique logo on the bottom right corner and it has an absolutely gorgeous illustration which is unique to only that card. These factors make this card very unique, which in my opinion is why it is very desirable/valuable.
Then that must be unique to Pokemon cards. With every other collectible I’ve dabbled in- sports cards, stamps, coins, hot wheels, other toys- rarity is always what governs price. Upside down plane stamp, Honus Wagner card, white enamel camaro, a handful of different coins all the rarest of their kind and all top dollar when it comes to price paid. Aside from the Honus Wagner who is viewed by many as one of, if not the, greatest baseball player ever, there is nothing spectacular about any of these other than the number in existence. What I’ve been privately offered for one of the promos I got far exceeded what was paid for the pair, so I think there are plenty of at least new collectors willing to pony up for rarity.
I can understand how they wouldn’t appeal to piece collectors I suppose, but to people who want to collect one of everything it’s another story. If all you would be willing to offer someone selling one is a few hundred it shows only that you personally don’t prioritize them highly. No surprise since you’re into Japanese trophies well more than rare English cards.
Don’t let that stop you from selling me a Turtwig for a few hundred dollars should you come by one though 
I had a full English Pika set, still have 2 No. 3 trainers, and the only PSA 10 graded english Trainer. I also have every english set except for the most recent ones. I am into everything pokemon; Japanese cards are much more abundant since pokemon is japanese. Either way, I am just being realistic about the cards.
Uniqueness is why cards are valuable. The Honus Wagner is the most valuable not because of sheer copies but because of the uniqueness of the item. The story behind why he did not want the cards printed and why there are only 50 or so copies is what builds their mystic. There are baseball cards with under 10 copies, but they come nowhere near the price of Honus Wagner.
To be perfectly honest, the fact that the cards require discussion says everything. People are not looking at them like Preraichu or trophies. I don’t think you are acknowledging the realistic perspective that collectors have in this hobby. The allure/mystic is not solely defined the number of copies of an item. The desire to own a card is the culmination of many factors. Quantity is one of those elements, but not the only one.
I agree they may not reach the prechu status as that has been well explained. The unsolicited offer I received was still enough to buy an English #2 with change left over. That’s reality. The fact that these cards have to be talked about only shows they are unheard of, and you shouldn’t mistake that for unwanted.
To be so dismissive kinda makes me wonder if you may be a little closed off. Also, while you have all those cards, your sig line shows which you value. The only 10 English trophy isn’t one of them.
The Honus Wagner has 22 known copies, 7 of which are in gradable condition. The other 15 don’t get the high dollar prices so for all intents and purposes there are 7 Honus Wagner cards. While the Wagner does sell for more than the 7 “rarer” cards, none of those other cards are mere give-aways each commanding mid 6 figures. The stamps there are 7 known and pull 6 figures. The corrected stamp not even 3 figures. The '67 Camaro in white enamel is one of the ugliest cars Hot Wheels ever produced, but being only 5 are known of has sold for a little over a hundred thousand.
At this point, and precisely because you are a well respected collector, I doubt anyone would voice their personal values because you’ve downplayed the cards so much. Why have you done this? I was seeking everyone’s opinions. I get it that you don’t value you them much at all Scott, but you’ve rang your opinion so loud and often of why these are less than desirable cards I would gladly wager that if anyone else saw things differently they either wouldn’t weigh in out of peer pressure to conform to what Scott thinks or would just duplicate what Scott thinks.
I know it wasn’t your intent, but you kinda derailed what I was attempting to get- uninfluenced feedback from the collective collecting community. Sometimes I don’t think you see how big a shadow you cast my friend.
Wayne, you are upset because no one is responding here or on the gym, that has nothing to do with me. I didn’t touch the gym article and look at what happened. Where is that shadow excuse there? The interest is not there yet with these cards. Your arguments are based on your feeling, you are not analyzing the realistic data. You are describing an ideal or what you want instead of what is there.
I am not arguing what I am feeling. Plain and simple, one more time, here are the pros and cons:
Pros: Very low quantity.
Cons: Very common illustration. Vague stamp. Low knowledge of the cards.
Also, please do not make claims about what I personally value based on my signature. The cards in my signature are more sought after and are slightly more of an achievement to me than others in my collection, that is why they are there. Regardless, basing how much I value a card off of it not being in my signature is pointless and irrelevant.
Lastly, any other members, please feel free to post exactly what you feel about these cards.
Frosty, I think you may have overlooked the point. They are “common” cards but because of the stamp they are extremely rare…roughly five made? To say that they would not fetch a decent price is very debatable. For example there are a bunch of variant cards in high demand: Prerelease riachu (how can a stamp effect value right?), Kamex mega battle, stadium deoxys…I can go on. I can understand not liking them- I just don’t like newer cards and I am certainly not running out to buy them! However, the truth is people pay a premium for variants…how else will some complete their collections without them?
Now if sound like I am siding a bit with Scott, then I guess I am…so sue me. Like frosty said these are my own options on the subject and I hardly consider myself a fool. It is kind of sad that I even have to defend my own reasoning at the risk of being crucified over a Pokemon card.
Oh okay! I got you now. Sorry if I was a bit defensive…lack of sleep will do that! However, outside of wanyegg, Scott and yourself, not many people in this thread have participated in the discussion. Those that have have certainly voiced their own opinion. To quote Scott:
Is that not how you feel? You said it yourself when you said that you would rather spend the money on an older trophy card…and I agree! For example, if you lined up the illustrator, trophy pikachus, SSB, TMB, unikarp, kangashkan, snaps and the distributors and asked a random person to pick out the cards that were “very special” guess what would get picked? The trophies. Why, all of these other cards look kind of normal without the history behind them. Just my two cents.
Anyway, I just don’t see why we are attacking Scott. I personally don’t think he is being over bearing…I just think everyone here is a bit over opinionated and will defend their point 
…me included!
Thanks for weighing in guys. I don’t care to say exactly what I paid but I will say I had to sell my 9th and add more to it in order to get them.
Not at all upset buddy. Sorry emotion doesn’t come through clearly in text. I’m just saying I hear your opinion, I know what I was offered (because someone always offers it seems when you come up with something), and the value you give is miles apart from that offer, is miles apart from what they were worth to me, and in all likelihood miles apart from what the 3 card set sold for at 2011 Worlds. Nothing more, nothing less.
I feel like most of us on here are very opinionated and have our own minds! and that is not a bad thing, it leads to very good discussions! Heck I probably lead the way when it comes to the opinionated pokemon card fanatic.
Would I buy the cards at the price point I assume you were offered? No, I dont care for new pokemon cards all that much. But they are intriguing and the rarity of the cards makes them a worthy topic of discussion. That is my on view on them
What do I think the general population will think? The population needs some sort of a guide with any pertinent information (and pictures) to increase awareness. The rarity is a strong selling feature, but can it be confirmed? Who received them, and at what tournaments? Who currently owns some? How many have sold privately? These questions need to be answered before the cards will command a higher price point.
What do they have going for them; seldom seen, holographic, supposed limited distribution
What do they have going against them; many questions about copies and distribution, non-exclusive artwork, vague stamp (could a stamp be counterfeit? Who stamped them originally?), newer generation of cards.
I think a high end collector will pay quite a bit for these, but they won’t attain the price of a #1 #2 #3 trainer unless questions begin to be answered. Even so, that might take years,and presumably the trainers will increase in value aswell by that time. Finally, they will NEVER reach Pre-Release Raichu infamy and price. Pre-Release Raichu has everything and more going for it, and is firmly cemented with the Illustrator in holy grail of all of Pokemon status. These cards will never reach that, my friends who haven’t collected in a decade know nothing about pokemon but all know what the two grails are, they even know some of the backstory to them! That is how powerful those cards are.
Something I forgot to reiterate before, as Mike quoted earlier and in the same quote above, I like the cards for their rarity and story. That is my personal view, I do not dislike them in anyway. However, when given the option to purchase them over an english pika, prize card or any ultra rare item, they are lower in priority.
What I was trying to give you before was a realistic assertion of what the general population feels about these cards. Of course, anything anyone says can be trivialized down to “their opinion”. In my case, I have extensive experience in the hobby and there is merit in what is being said. Moreover, what I was trying to illustrate was not what I personally felt, it was analyzing the variables and weighing the pro’s and con’s=Free market research.
With this said, I think right now, the vast majority will feel comfortable paying high hundreds for the cards. You have to acknowledge the fact that the stamp is the only unique difference on the cards. If you take a look at the winners cards from worlds, “t32-champion” they are very difficult to sell. Sure the copies are low on the finalist card and now champion, but most collectors are more than content in only owning a staff stamped card.
And again, what I said in my first post, any card is worth what someone will pay. This is supply and demand. Pokemon and most hobbies are not items of necessity. If someone has no problem paying whatever price then that is what it is. Of course you run into ethics and the realistic market value in doing business, but the latter is always changing, especially in pokemon.
Do you think you would be able to upload pictures of them for me? These cards sound incredibly interesting and I have no idea how to find pictures of them online.
Woah, what? Really? You like the stock art? 
(Does that mean you liked the DP-era promos then?)
Not trying to be rude, genuinely surprised there are Sugimori fans!
I am a huge Sugimori fan although I am only familiar with the Pokemon cards up to the middle of the neo era.
Early Sugimori illustrations define pokemon for me.
My thoughts on this: I remember a conversation about Japanese rarest cards that got heated when I claimed that the 10 Snap cards are (as a set) more valuable than an Illustrator. This reminded me of that
Why do we keep having these types of conversations? Actually, the two main reasons were already mentioned by Wayne (the uniqueness of the Pokémon community) and Jason (the fact that as a whole we’re bloody opinionated!)
The fact is, other collectibles that command Pokémon level prices have well developed mechanisms (e.g. MTG and YGO have multiple sites offering prices that update daily), a proper database of cards (although pokem0n-card.com have put theirs online again) and a designing company that interacts heavily with its hardcore audience. Pokémon just doesn’t have any of that. Typically people who like Pokémon are younger; MTG has the ‘advantage’ that the game is highly complex so tends to favour older, intelligent people (who then build fancy things like the stuff I just mentioned).
Thus the fact that these cards are not well known and there are so many open questions genuinely hurts their value.
However, given how small the hardcore collecting community is, and the fact that they are stamped cards (which I hate - wouldn’t buy a Prerelease Raichu either unless it was cheap or to turn a profit), you’ll have a hard time convincing me that the cards have intrinsic value.
Having said all that, I don’t think my feelings (or Scott’s, or Jason’s) should have any bearing on what you buy Wayne. If you’re happy to buy those cards at a high price, go for it.
(I guess its useful to know what others think for ‘investment’ purposes, but I never think along those lines (I only ever sell duplicates and so sell rarely).)
That’s a fair comment… I thought Base/Jungle/Fossil were pretty cool (at the time).
What about now though? Would you prefer a set full of Sugimori? (Did you like the DP era?)
haha what would an unfair comment be? When I think of early pokemon I envision Sugimori’s artwork. I have not seen much of the newer illustrations. I liked a good amount of the 2007 DP when they were originally released. The simplicity of his drawings is what I enjoy. Perhaps I am biased since they were the first illustrations I saw in the 90’s.
And I agree about the promo’s. I asked some of the regular customers from ebay that I communicate with frequently and they have the same impression as just about everyone here. What is typical with most serious collectors is the unique illustration aspect. Cards that are re-released in any fashion are more difficult to sell.
With that said, I would still like to hear what others think.