Damaged PSA 9 TMB Tropical Wind

[zubat]

Please forgive this slight tangent, but is the same copy that sat at 10K BIN for months and months a few years ago? If I recall, that was a 9 copy that was known to have a dent. Anyone know if the cert is the same?

[pokematt]

@barracuda

@pokematt

@zorloth , Buyers description also says the card is in mint condition. Card did not arrive in mint condition due to damage. So he can force a return in that case under “item did not match pictures or description”

But according to PSA the card is mint.

Then the seller should have no problem accepting the return and taking up PSA’s financial guarantee

[parkermrparker]

Heres what i would do:

1. Message the seller and say the card arrived damaged, and want them to consider a return
2. Contact ebay and get a feel for how they would side in a case, they can offer some insight into what might happen should you open an item case, should the seller be unwilling to work things out via step 1
3. In the event step 1 doesnt work, and step 2 is looking unfruitful aswell, contact psa (via email) with your concerns and get a feel for their opinion. They may have insight to this particular card already, or they may be able to give you an idea of their process and if its a good idea.
4. If all else fails and you dont like any of these avenues, you dont want to keep the item also, send it to be auctioned via an auction house, and make it their problem.

I hope step 1 is as far as it needs to go. I think there is a grey zone for buying/selling graded cards with issues that make the grade disagreeable, and this is in the grey zone. The card couldve been damaged via slipping over the tab, the card couldve also been poorly graded. I know if i were selling a psa 9 and knew of the damage (i would surely know of every issue on a 5 figure card) i would disclose it, but not everyone has the integrity to do that. Independence with opinion; to disagree with a grade is a healthy thing, some people saying its wrong to do so have a thought process I could disagree with.

[lolzicost]

@newcollector

This is the item in question: www.ebay.com/itm/114784603269. It is a PSA 9 TMB Tropical Wind. I didn’t want peoples’ opinions to be affected by what the card is but I guess all factors come into play in a nuanced situation like this. For the record, the cert number is 22135550.

I’ve always been weary of buying Tropical Wind in PSA 9, there was a damaged copy a few years ago being sold but I forgot the cereal number.

[parkermrparker]

@lolzicost

@newcollector

This is the item in question: www.ebay.com/itm/114784603269. It is a PSA 9 TMB Tropical Wind. I didn’t want peoples’ opinions to be affected by what the card is but I guess all factors come into play in a nuanced situation like this. For the record, the cert number is 22135550.

I’ve always been weary of buying Tropical Wind in PSA 9, there was a damaged copy a few years ago being sold but I forgot the cereal number.

I now see that it had the damage in the photos. I think that negates a right to file a return, unless the seller feels they should accommodate…

[lolzicost]

@parkermrparker

@lolzicost

I’ve always been weary of buying Tropical Wind in PSA 9, there was a damaged copy a few years ago being sold but I forgot the cereal number.

I now see that it had the damage in the photos. I think that negates a right to file a return, unless the seller feels they should accommodate…

You can faintly see them but you can’t see how bad the scratches really are without closeups. It’s a complicated situation but either way if he wants a return eBay will oblige regardless if the buyer is right or wrong.

@zubat, that copy had a dent similar to what you see in PSA 5 & 6 copies. This one is just scratches so I don’t think it’s the same copy.

[fourthstartcg]

@pokematt

@barracuda

But according to PSA the card is mint.

Then the seller should have no problem accepting the return and taking up PSA’s financial guarantee

The PSA financial guarantee does not apply to the original submitter of a card. So if the seller is the original submitter, they have no recourse through PSA.

If the seller is not the original submitter, this could be a possible solution. But again, outside of intentional concealment of damage, sellers should not be responsible for errors by PSA.

[poke-geri]

@fourthstartcg

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but the main issue I see is that you do not believe that the card’s currently encased condition merits the grade that was assigned. I don’t see how this is the fault of the seller, and I think you should be directing your efforts at PSA.

Sellers should not be responsible for PSA’s mistakes. Many sellers simply don’t have the time to (nor should they be expected to) look over every single one of their PSA graded cards with a keen eye just in case PSA made a mistake. The whole point of professional grading is to take the subjectivity of buyer/seller condition ratings out of the picture. Once a card is graded, the responsibility for any misgrades rests with the grading company, not with the seller of the graded card. If you had asked before the purchase if the card had any damage, and insisted upon multiple pictures and angles of the card, and the damage was intentionally concealed, that is another story. But that doesn’t seem to have happened here.

Damage and misgrades are subjective as well, we have threads seemingly every month where someone takes a 100x microscope to their PSA 10 card and finds the littlest issue and then posts about how they’ve been screwed by a seller and deserve a refund. Not saying that’s what’s happening here, but when you say it’s okay to open an eBay case for something like this, those ridiculous claims get more weight.

Obviously this is a shitty situation as it sucks to buy a graded card and have it be a misgrade. It’s happened several times to me. If you reach out to the seller and explain the situation they may decide to provide a refund, but personally if they did not do that I would not go any further.

Also, for the purposes of the E4 Blacklist, opening eBay cases/forcing refunds due to disagreeing with a professionally-assigned grade is considered opening a case without merit. If you proceeded with this and the seller contacted me and asked to have you blacklisted, this would qualify.

You got a very weird standpoint honestly… it doesn‘t matter if a card is graded or not, the seller is still responsible for what they sell and in what condition.

[smokemon]

@qwachansey

Here’s a lovely PSA 10 Chansey ex. Let’s say I list on eBay for $300. What a steal!

Unfortunately, at some point in time, a velociraptor seems to have clawed this case. The actual card is probably fine, but most buyers would not be happy to at minimum risk having to recase.

I took those photos ten seconds apart in different lighting. Yes, there are plenty of annoying buyers who return due to buyers remorse and bullshit reasons. But there are always exceptions where sellers can easily assume that by not being upfront they should expect a return from any buyer. I don’t think a buyer of my Chansey ex should be blacklisted for wanting to return if I had only provided that first photo.

Chansey used double edge and caused self damage. So you’re good

[smokemon]

@cursebot

@smokemon

Small is a vague word, what do you mean? Length and width of pokemon cards are the same. I measured thickness on a Japanese and English card and got 0.0115" and 0.0125" using a Mitutoyo caliper.

PSA cases hold the cards fine. Sometimes the acrylic tabs allow the card to shake around a bit based on positioning but other than that not sure what you mean

every japanese psa card I own shakes from the smallest movements possible, and I wanted to find out why so I researched and found a few people saying its because “japanese cards are smaller then english cards”

I…

Good luck

[cursebot]

@smokemon

@cursebot

every japanese psa card I own shakes from the smallest movements possible, and I wanted to find out why so I researched and found a few people saying its because “japanese cards are smaller then english cards”

I…

Good luck

Did I say something wrong?

[pichufan]

@kaldoverde

@zorloth , I am flabbergasted at how little recourse consumers have in the US. If anything I would assume it to be even more stringent than in the UK, but you are correct, there is no legal requirement to accept returns in the US.

In the UK the law regarding this matter is of such common knowledge that accepting returns is second nature to most sellers:

“You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you. You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.“

There are a lot of practices in the UK which people in the US have little knowledge of and lead to pretty bad buyer/seller interactions.

Unfortunately a lot of this is on eBay though, because eBay allow for listing internationally but do not detail what those international buyers can and cannot do. If I buy an item from the US on eBay’s UK website the seller has a legal responsibility to allow me to return the item regardless of whether they accept returns or not - that’s just what they have to adhere to if selling to the UK.

Combined postage costs are another thing which I’ve found to be quite alien to US eBay sellers. In the UK if you buy multiple items from the same seller eBay sometimes forces you to request a total shipping cost - it actually blocks you from paying until you do. This is not something I think eBay’s US website supports and in the past I’ve had US eBay sellers replying to the automated “Please send me a combined postage cost” message telling me how entitled I’m being for requesting such a thing, even though I quite literally cannot pay until they do!

[smokemon]

@cursebot

@smokemon

I…

Good luck

Did I say something wrong?

No, ignore me. I misread that

[geg89]

You would expect the seller to disclose that kind of damage, and please don’t say “ohh errm…well the seller probably didn’t see it or doesn’t have time to look over the card” I call Bull on that! @fourthstartcg for a card of this level you can rest assured it will have been properly looked over. Yes it may be PSAs error if they damaged during grading(cant say for sure but the damage lines up with the holder so could have been done at psa or after if the card slipped between the slats), that aside it is the sellers responsibility to disclose imperfections and issues when selling, especially if it is not inline with the standards of that specific item. Personally I would just return the card as not as described, get my money back and look for another elsewhere over the next few years. It seems like the seller purposely didn’t picture and show the damage.

[KingPokemon]

@poke-geri

@fourthstartcg

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but the main issue I see is that you do not believe that the card’s currently encased condition merits the grade that was assigned. I don’t see how this is the fault of the seller, and I think you should be directing your efforts at PSA.

Sellers should not be responsible for PSA’s mistakes. Many sellers simply don’t have the time to (nor should they be expected to) look over every single one of their PSA graded cards with a keen eye just in case PSA made a mistake. The whole point of professional grading is to take the subjectivity of buyer/seller condition ratings out of the picture. Once a card is graded, the responsibility for any misgrades rests with the grading company, not with the seller of the graded card. If you had asked before the purchase if the card had any damage, and insisted upon multiple pictures and angles of the card, and the damage was intentionally concealed, that is another story. But that doesn’t seem to have happened here.

Damage and misgrades are subjective as well, we have threads seemingly every month where someone takes a 100x microscope to their PSA 10 card and finds the littlest issue and then posts about how they’ve been screwed by a seller and deserve a refund. Not saying that’s what’s happening here, but when you say it’s okay to open an eBay case for something like this, those ridiculous claims get more weight.

Obviously this is a shitty situation as it sucks to buy a graded card and have it be a misgrade. It’s happened several times to me. If you reach out to the seller and explain the situation they may decide to provide a refund, but personally if they did not do that I would not go any further.

Also, for the purposes of the E4 Blacklist, opening eBay cases/forcing refunds due to disagreeing with a professionally-assigned grade is considered opening a case without merit. If you proceeded with this and the seller contacted me and asked to have you blacklisted, this would qualify.

You got a very weird standpoint honestly… it doesn‘t matter if a card is graded or not, the seller is still responsible for what they sell and in what condition.

Agreed. Shocking.
I just want ALL customers to be like 4star;)

[spinch]

The seller knows the damage is there. Whether they submitted it themselves or they bought it. You don’t have a 30k card sitting around without knowing where clear damage is.

If I sold a card of that value without knowing the damage was there (which is hard to believe) and the buyer messaged me asking for a refund. Who would actually say ‘bad luck, take it up with PSA’? I feel anyone with integrity would see they sold a damaged card and just refund it. What goes around, comes around. The more we look after each other the healthier the hobby is. The more that people are opportunistic and skate that thin line of what is right and wrong, the more our hobby suffers.

@newcollector Ultimately, everyone has their opinions but you’re the one living the situation and it’'s a lot easier to have opinions with no skin in the game. If I felt the seller genuinely didn’t know I would empathise with them and maybe come up with some sort of agreement where we are both happy. However, if I was the seller I would insist that the right thing is done and the card is refunded if that’s what the buyer wanted. Your seller should do the same.

I also don’t agree with just sending it to an auction house and passing on the problem because you could get away with it. Collectors look out for each other. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!

[crystalcollector149]

God this thread is hilarious, graded or not you purchased something you aren’t happy with, and it’s not in the condition you are okay with, so return it. End of story, nothing the seller can do other then accept the return and move on, no need to give the seller a bad feedback etc just move on. The comments throughout this thread are absolutely ridiculous lol. Reading the comments how ppl say “it’s a PSA card so good luck returning” is just so absolutely ignorant that it’s mind blowing and they have absolutely no idea how selling works… the buyer has an easy case here guys.

[smpratte]

This copy was discussed in discord because it ended lower than other psa 9 winds. The damage was one of the reasons. If you look closely it was there on the card before the purchase. Of course its tough to tell. Misgrades are just a shitty situation for everyone involved.

[swolepoke]

Yikes, this makes the third PSA 9 graded TMB wind that has noticeable damage on the card itself.

With cards that are this rarity and getting to five figures, it’s probably best to be sticking to reliable sources for purchasing.

[Pbali]

@swolepoke

Yikes, this makes the third PSA 9 graded TMB wind that has noticeable damage on the card itself.

With cards that are this rarity and getting to five figures, it’s probably best to be sticking to reliable sources for purchasing.

Do you happen to know the cert #'s of the other ones? As someone who is looking for this card, I am always scared of buying one with the corner marks, or now, one like this.