Unbelievable that @fourthstartcg would blacklist this buyer.
6 Likes
I see his point. The damage is somewhat visible in the picture, folks usually don’t take angled pics of PSA cards. With how the damage is, I doubt it was done after it was encased. This puts it on PSA in my opinion, they have a process for this, I just don’t know the success rate.
1 Like
the person selling the card would know if it’s a misgraded card. if they sold the card without disclosing the obvious damage there, then it is on the seller. i’d ask for a return. if it wasn’t there, then you need proof, or you need to ask the seller to file a claim with the shipping company, which sounds like that wasn’t the case.
in any case, i don’t think it’ll be very easy to go thru PSA. and are you willing to lean on PSA determining a market value for a misgraded card even if you got lucky that they admit the case being a misgrade? i wouldn’t bet my money on it.
1 Like
@icollectr , no it’s the seller’s responsibility to delivery the item as described. The buyer expected a PSA 9 Tropical Wind, but received a PSA 6 Tropical Wind. As a seller I could never imagine pawning off a misgraded $30k card and telling the buyer to take it up with PSA. It would never sit right with me, as well as any other reasonable seller.
To say the seller doesn’t have time to examine their $30k PSA card for damage or to blacklist the buyer is absurd. We can’t just regurgitate generic responses to these situations. There’s not an easy answer, but it’s disappointing to see a mod, who is in a position of “power”, taking such an ignorant stance.
3 Likes
I think Ethan’s mentioning the blacklist is a side point to emphasize the main point that this can quickly become a slippery slope. How many threads have we seen where people say, “this is misgraded”, when it’s not. I’ve had numerous buyer claims; “the card moved around, a hair in the case, not a tru 9,10, etc”. If anything this wind is more the exception than the norm. And it’s a shitty situation for both buyer and seller as it’s the grading companies fault.
7 Likes
We have blacklisted people and will continue to blacklist for abuse of eBay’s money back guarantee. That has always included forcing a return on a graded card because you disagree with the PSA/professionally-assigned grade.
That being said, this specific situation is difficult. Did the seller know beforehand about the damage/misgrade and intentionally conceal it in order to get a high(er) sale? After discussing with people on discord last night about the specific card, I think that’s much more likely than when I originally posted. And as I mentioned in the original post and in subsequent ones, a seller doing something like this is unethical and the card should be rightfully returned. Did the damage occur pre-encapsulation or during encapsulation (fault of PSA and buyer should be compensated through financial guarantee) or did the damage occur post-encapsulation (PSA will take no responsibility)? I see ShadowLugia’s point here that you can’t really be sure, especially with PSA’s recent behavior, and this makes a return for compensation much more attractive.
All this is to say that in this specific situation the buyer would not be blacklisted.
More generally, the return of graded cards because of a disagreement with the assigned grade and/or the error of a grading company is a massive gray area. People should not be able to pull out their 100x microscopes on every PSA 10 card and be able to return it because they find a speck of whitening, or their “idea” of a PSA 9 card doesn’t match up with the reality of the PSA 9 grade. Just because eBay allows it doesn’t make it acceptable. However, what if there’s an obvious crease that PSA missed, or it’s a blatant misgrade? Now it’s less cut and dry. What if the seller knew about that damage, and yet sold the card anyways without disclosing it? What if that damage possibly occurred post-encapsulation, meaning no recourse for the buyer through the PSA Financial Guarantee? Now you’re getting to where a return is certainly justified.
7 Likes
@fourthstartcg, thank you for the response. My main point was that the specifics of the situation should be considered and that’s exactly what you just did.
2 Likes
You think Ethan is bad? I’d add anyone who messages me on Ebay to the blacklist
7 Likes
Hmmmm I remember a time when you messaged or intended to message me on eBay about combining shipping for two Expedition holos you purchased. I should have blacklisted you back then 
No, but in all seriousness I don’t understand the strong negative sentiment towards eBay messages. I’d say the majority of messages I get are productive (such combining shipping) or someone sharing their passion for pokemon.
9 Likes
Blacklisted for having too good of a memory
15 Likes
Think it’s laughable to expect the buyer to eat his 30k purchase on something not disclosed in the description. PSA grades are an opinion by PSA on what the card is like, but if you get the card and don’t like it why is it any different than buying a raw card where you couldn’t see flaws? You purchasd an extra opinion, but the buyer is still able to make judgements about the thing they just purchased as you are responsible for it, not PSA. It’s easy for us to think the other way because most of the time we are the seller nowadays.
And PSA’s guarantee is pretty much the opposite of one. Without Scott and Gary calling for me like 4-5 times about my fake stamp charizard they literally were hanging up on me, and even then they only gave me 450$ for it, my original purchase price from many years before
6 Likes
The seller definitely knew it was damaged and didn’t want to highlight the damage.
Go for the refund.
Now that’s better 4star.
1 Like
This is a complicated situation. Imagine if the grader of the card/seller is a guy who just won a trophy from an event, or pulled a base 1st charizard from a pack years ago and just now graded/sold the card. If the card is a huge misgrade from PSA and it’s being sold by a new seller who doesn’t know anything about the grading process beyond the grade they received back, is it really fair to open a return in that case?
There is no need to introduce irrelevant hypotheticals here.
- The card was graded roughly 7 or 8 years ago judging by the serial number
- The seller is not an event participant not first owner of this serial number and was aware of the damage and PSA grading standards
- Could be a brand new seller and return would still be completely justified
2 Likes
Can I get links to Deez and Ligma?
They sound like good sellers
2 Likes
This video literally shows that it takes a power drill viberating the card for 15 minutes at a fast enough rate for the case to heat up for damage to appear, after a previous test showing it being shaken for an hour by another contraption involving legos and an engine. Quite obviously any “fault” to the grade lies with PSA, not the seller. The entire point of people grading cards before selling them is so that they don’t have to be responsible or deal with people contesting what the condition of the card is that they are putting up to BIN or Auction. Trying to hold a seller responsible for selling a PSA 9 card because you think the card should be a PSA 8 or 7 grade is absurd. Saying you think sellers should need to disclose condition notations outside of saying the card’s literal grade is absurd. If you REALLY think the card isn’t worth the price you paid, then contest it with PSA and see if they will drop the grade lower and pay you out the difference. Otherwise, you’re surely going to get blacklisted by a lot of other collectors and sellers. That is my opnion and it is just one of many. Good luck.
Not to derail this thread, but this is exactly why PSA upcharges for hundreds or thousands of dollars for their “gaurantee/insurance” is contested as nothing but a money-grab/fraud. Ideally, the seller should be completely in the clear and PSA should stand by their gaurantee. Instead, we have buyers and sellers arguing over who should get burned. Another bad look for PSA.
2 Likes
@chrisbalestra, thanks for sharing your opinion. Here’s mine: If I had a card with a crease and it graded a 9, it doesn’t change the fact that my card was creased in the first place. Just because PSA gave it a 9 doesn’t mean I now magically deserve to be able to sell it to some unknowing buyer at the same price as a non misgraded 9. The seller isn’t getting “burned” because they had what they had to begin with.
5 Likes
You can return it thanks to Ebay’s buyer protection. This is not what you asked. You asked people’s opinions on contesting cards from sellers because you disagree with the grade on the slab and think it should be a lower grade. I don’t know why you’d ask this when you know it’s such a controversial topic other than to feel better about opening that return. Your mind is and has always been made up on the matter, so we’re just weighing in. The card isn’t creased, there is a scratch. Maybe that scratch warrants an 8 or 7, maybe it doesn’t. Either you like the card or you don’t like the card. It’s all pretty subjective. One thing I’m noticing that’s kinda silly though is that people think this should be some sort of special case because it’s a 5 figure card. People should hold the same opinion one way or another regardless on how much money is being spent. There shouldn’t be a catalyst on who should be responsible and when it’s ok to submit a return based on the pricepoint.