What responsibility do sellers have?

General
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Hey all,
So a few days ago I received a PSA 8 1st ed Poliwhirl that I bought a month ago off of someone on ebay. Upon looking at it, it looks like it is in poor shape (for a PSA 8) especially compared to my other PSA 8s. I looked back at the photos on the listing and the photos don’t show up these imperfections. Now my question is, should sellers have any obligation to say what condition a card is in if it’s worse than the PSA/BGS grade? Or is this something the buyer must take up with the grading companies?

Thinking back further the first PSA 10 card I bought had imperfections, which I found astounding. It was actually in worse condition than my PSA 9 cards from the same set!

Cheers,
Alex

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The way I feel, whatever grade BGS or PSA gives it that’s what it is as far as the buyer/seller relationship goes. If I disagree with the graders “opinion” then tough beans, I’ll just resell it.

Now if I’m buying ungraded and it’s not an expensive card then I’ll do the same thing if I’m not happy with it. Just sell it. But I would understand if you didn’t, cause it wasn’t described by the seller properly. But graded cards aren’t the sellers opinion or fault so I’d leave him alone.

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Imo if a card is a certain grade, you don’t have to explain the card’s condition with more than “PSA 8” because you are buying a card that has been graded by a grading company. It’s the grading company’s opinion. You can’t really blame the seller if you aren’t happy with the condition.

Meanwhile imperfections on PSA cases itself should me mentioned imo. Things like damage or significant scratching.

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Yes, I agree, if the case has a problem the seller should mention it,

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Thanks fellas. I just wasn’t sure if there is a courtesy thing or not. Haha don’t worry I wasn’t going to contact the seller, it’s not his fault. It just got me thinking and I was asking more out of curiosity than anything else. I agree that if the grading company has graded the card it’s out of the seller’s hands to give his own opinion. It’s already professionally graded! I guess you just have to ask for more photos if you’re unsure.

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I am going through this with a buyer right now. He is claiming a tiny issue with a card 2.5 months after the fact likely because the value fell a bit and he is a remorseful dirtbag.

He is claiming a card is not a PSA 10 because it has a tiny scratch on the holo. I reviewed my photos and didn’t see one, and he wasn’t even able to capture it in a photo. Said himself it was tiny and very light. I ensured him that no card is perfect and PSA 10’s are allowed to have minor imperfections. Unless a blatant misgrade by PSA the seller has no responsibility for minor disputes between the buyer and the grade. The fact is PSA professionally graded those cards and gave their OPINION. If your non professional opinion differs from theirs then tough luck. Sell it along or move on. If it is blatant, you can return to the seller or ideally just move for a financial grade of guarantee claim to get the card regraded to its proper grade.

What do people expect besides some high res photos and a professional opinion on the grade? The reason I grade cards is to avoid issues like this and this trend of buyers complaining about grades that PSA gave the cards is troubling.

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I could imagine that would be frustrating. I guess you know you’ve done nothing wrong so hopefully it works out. In my case I was shocked because I had never seen an 8 in the condition I had seen but accept that I’ve already bought it so it’s mine now. Ebay’s already a buyer’s place so I wouldn’t make it even harder on the sellers haha. Out of interest what card was it to fall in value?

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Seller has no obligation to explain a grade to you imo. If you ask and they are nice enough, sure. But other than that, the card has been professionally graded with an opinion from an outside source, seller is making no claims.

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PSA 10 prerelease Charizard from evolutions. Not STAFF, just the regular one.

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Ahhh ok very nice, very nice.

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It’s amazing that people have the gall to do that, what do they expect? If the buyer has a problem with the grade than that’s something for them to take up with PSA, not with the seller. You sold a PSA 10, that’s what it was graded as and that’s what the buyer bought, his opinion doesn’t matter, if he has a problem with the grade it’s between him and PSA what does he expect you to do about it? Take the word of a random person against the people that professionally graded the card? LOL?

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If the card presents flaws that are outside what people deem ‘normal’ of a certain grade I think an honest seller should include this in the description/clear pictures. I have seen cards from both PSA and BGS that display ‘unusual’ flaws for the grade, where if regraded there may be a good chance it would be heavily downgraded, or even if the flaws are justified informing potential sellers might be the better option than just passing the buck. It is an interesting dilemma of sorts and I sway either side but I feel if you knowingly hide or attempt to conceal then you are doing a disservice to a buyer.

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I dont collect graded cards but an opinion of someone from outside the box.
Unfortunately there will always be discrepancies. Those from grading employees and those from a personal perspective.
Look at the threads around here relating to concerns with graded cards. While they are graded to a level, some people will find discrepancies through their eyes.

For your personal situation you admit only finding the imperfections recently. Why did you not see these when you received the item. Maybe your knowledge is better now or maybe you have been swayed differently now after reading said threads??? Then you went back and revisited even older cards with new eyes… :confused:

Pictures are terrible for imperfection which is why I assume people buy graded cards. If you dont have a trust or willingness to accept the missed discrepancies from the companies employees then maybe its not for you.

To answer your specific questions: “should sellers have any obligation to say what condition a card is in if it’s worse than the PSA/BGS grade?”
No. The process has been done. Its not their fault.

“Or is this something the buyer must take up with the grading companies?”
Again, no. *Analogy time* I dont buy a lawn mower and when I ask the guy if it mows well, take his word for it to mow my yard well. His decision is based on his yard and the mowers ability personally. When its a shit mower for my yard, I dont go to the company and dispute its ability after these facts.

Does that work or am i just mumbling shite? lol

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I think that’s a good analogy except the business models of a mowing company and PSA are a bit different. It’s more like a mowing company having a 100% guaranteed lifetime warranty on their product. Then guy in your analogy sells it advertising this lifetime warranty and you buy it only to find out that it only mows half your giant lawn before dying out (for whatever reason). In this case it’s perfectly reasonable to go after the company holding them up to the warranty they offered.

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The obligation of the seller is to describe the item accurately, provide a picture of the actual item (not a stock photo), and to ship the item within the shipping and handling time the seller entered for the auction. The first part is where a lot of sellers make mistakes.

There is a lot of wiggle room and nuances for ungraded cards that you have to be careful about. For example, if you pull a card straight from a pack, you should not use a condition of ‘New’. The ‘new’ condition includes the word undamaged, which, for a Pokemon card, means no edge wear, no surface wear, no dings, no tiny minor scratches at all. Since even a pack fresh card can include edgewear, this gives the buyer wiggle room to submit a claim that the item is not as described. A ‘New’ condition also includes the word unopened, which, obviously, is not possible for a Pokemon card that has been taken out of the pack.

Another common mistake is using condition qualifiers like ‘Near Mint’, ‘Lightly Played’, etc. without having a definition included in your listing what those words mean or entail. By not providing your own definitions, you may sell a card with a tiny tiny crease but otherwise looks perfectly fine and the buyer still submits a not as described claim. Why? Because their definition of Lightly Played (as backed up by other sources on ebay) say that Lightly Played does not include any creases (this is just an example).

For graded cards, you should not include any description of the flaws or lack of flaws at all! Which means don’t use a condition of ‘New’ and don’t say in your listing that ‘this card looks PERFECT’ or ‘this card is FLAWLESS’. When you do these things, you’re giving an opportunity to the buyer for a not as described claim. It is better to underdescribe than to overdescribe your cards.

If you want to look at a pro’s listings, take a look at PWCC’s auctions. Every single card (even the BGS 10 Charizard) has a condition of ‘Used’ and there is no description about the card’s condition whatsoever. The description might include what set the card’s from, whether it’s first edition, the population of the grade for that card, the popularity of Pokemon and their increasing prices, that kind of thing, but not the condition of the card.

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Speaking of cards being misgraded, look at this bad boy I stumbled upon, probably the worst 9 I’ve ever seen.

www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemom-Call-Of-Legends-Shiny-Lugia-SL7-Psa-9-Mint-/263183515706?hash=item3d46f5c03a:g:U2EAAOSwn1FZq0dk

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Totally agree with this. If you buy and sell pokemon cards for a living then you know when a grade is off. There was a PSA 10 neo feraligatr up for auction a little while ago from a pretty well known seller (I can’t remember his name) and he made it crystal clear in the title and description that the card was unusually scratched up for a 10 AND took an up close photo of the scratches. Did he HAVE to do that? No. But it’s that kind of honesty that separates a seller from a GREAT seller.

If you knowingly hide something or just don’t mention something you know is wrong then I’m sorry but that’s pretty scummy. I wouldn’t blow up over it but I would not return as a customer.

I’m not talking about “weak” 10s btw. I’m talking about misgrades.

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I think you misunderstand. I meant I bought the card over a month ago but I only physically received it in the mail a few days ago. And upon looking at it for the first time I made that judgement. It wasn’t retrospectively after ide had it sitting around for awhile.

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Yep this is kinda what I meant. I’ve never had a psa 8 with a crease before + it has a lot of whitening compared to the other 8s I have. I just thought because I noticed it straight away that he might have too… maybe not though.

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Let’s break this down simply.
If you disagree with the grade:
Resell it or send it to BGS or PSA for review. This has nothing to do with the seller.
Trying to make the point by saying “misgrade” is disingenuous. That’s a thousand to one occurrence. In my career I may have gotten 3 misgrades. And that’s out of more cards than probably days in you alls life. So forget that. It’s a waste of time to even discuss. This is about a difference in opinion of card appeal and appearance.