@fourthstartcg ridiculous. Anyone preaching “it’s on PSA” should have to experience firsthand trying to get a financial guarantee out of PSA. They caused $5k of damage to a card of mine in January and barely had the courtesy to reply to email while it’s currently four months into their “review” process. There is zero chance OP will get a cent out of them and in the time it takes to fight the window to return on eBay will close.
11 Likes
If sellers are now responsible for PSA’s mistakes then we’re back where we were before grading even started. When you’re buying a graded card you’re buying the opinion of a third party. You aren’t buying the opinion of a third party and Joe the eBay seller. What’s the point of professional grading if anyone who doesn’t like the grade can just return the card?
PSA’s ineptitude and their admittedly horrific administration of the financial guarantee should not be grounds for anyone who thinks they don’t have a “tru 10” or a “tru 9” to hold eBay sellers of graded cards responsible. Responsibilizing sellers for any kind of PSA error is ridiculous and should not be accepted as it will just come back to bite us in the future.
3 Likes
If sellers do not want to deal with returns or people backing out for their five figure cards, they can side step the convenience of eBay, which is buyer friendly, and send to auction houses that will take further action on faulty buyers. This isn’t an “I ordered a psa 10 and it has a slight holo scratch I am returning”, it’s “no, there are not sellers so wealthy they cannot take a second to notice damage that turns a $40k card into a $15k card, and they purposefully chose not to reveal this in pictures.”
6 Likes
@fourthstartcg , I just don’t agree in this specific case. You can put me on the blacklist if rules are rules and this applies, but in my opinion that would just reflect poorly on your blacklist. If I graded a PSA 10 card and I dropped it on the floor hard enough to damage the card inside, PSA is not responsible for my accident, nor should any potential buyer of my card be. There was a recent story where a card had water damage after encapsulation and was sold to someone. That buyer submitted the card for a reholder because the label was wrinkly. PSA did not even give the buyer the option of having it returned in the old case. They regraded it a 5 and stated it did not fall under their financial guarantee because it was damaged after encapsulation. As an unknowing buyer, should I be responsible for taking on this risk when purchasing a graded card? And the argument that they did not have time to inspect the back of this particular five figure card… well… I just don’t think that holds water.
I admit that I can’t prove for sure it wasn’t PSA’s fault for possibly misgrading the card, but I think the opposite of your statement also holds true. It will come back to bite us if we let sellers get away with misleading buyers. I’m all for seller-friendly policies, but only when sellers are actually being honest. The way your rules are currently framed is biased towards sellers in that it assumes the sellers are always well intentioned, and buyers are not. I just don’t agree.
2 Likes
Here’s a lovely PSA 10 Chansey ex. Let’s say I list on eBay for $300. What a steal!
Unfortunately, at some point in time, a velociraptor seems to have clawed this case. The actual card is probably fine, but most buyers would not be happy to at minimum risk having to recase.
I took those photos ten seconds apart in different lighting. Yes, there are plenty of annoying buyers who return due to buyers remorse and bullshit reasons. But there are always exceptions where sellers can easily assume that by not being upfront they should expect a return from any buyer. I don’t think a buyer of my Chansey ex should be blacklisted for wanting to return if I had only provided that first photo.
7 Likes
It’s just not fully clear if the damage happened before, after or during encapsulation. Without knowing that it’s hard to be sure what the “right” answer is here.
6 Likes
@newcollector, I highly doubt the card could be damaged like this after encapsulation. The story about the water-damaged sports card is certainly going to give a lot of people pause and something like that should fall on the seller of the graded card (i.e. post-encapsulation damage).
I think you’d have a strong claim with PSA’s financial guarantee, but we all know how difficult that is. Regardless of whether the card was damaged pre or post encapsulation, the ability of PSA to unilaterally make that determination and avoid paying out is disturbing. In an ideal world they would just pay out the difference to you and drop this to a 6 as it should be.
As I mentioned, if you either asked for additional pictures/angles and the seller intentionally concealed this, or if the seller knew and concealed the damage in any way, that’s a different story and is a lot more gray in my opinion. But as a whole, I am adamantly opposed to returning cards because the buyer believes the card is misgraded. The can of worms that opens is massively more consequential.
This is the item in question: www.ebay.com/itm/114784603269. It is a PSA 9 TMB Tropical Wind. I didn’t want peoples’ opinions to be affected by what the card is but I guess all factors come into play in a nuanced situation like this. For the record, the cert number is 22135550.
Aren’t free 30 day returns a thing in the US? If you’re unhappy with a product just return it for a refund.
You are exercising your right to return the product for a refund as is stated by ebay policy. Whether you tell the seller it is due to damage, because you changed your mind or because your 5 year old bought and you only noticed when it arrived is completely irrelevant.
I am an ebay seller and in the UK, I don’t even blink at return requests as they are a part of doing business and a right consumers have.
I find it hard to believe that a seller selling a card for $30k just “didn’t have the time” to look over the card to see if there was actually any damages. He states in the description you are buying a “Japanese Tropical Mega Battle Tropical Wind in Mint condition”. However, the card didn’t exactly arrive in mint condition.
I think you’re in your rights as well in returning the card for a full refund, or even trying to work something else out with the seller. The seller should try to go through PSA’s financial guarantee after he gets the card back, or he can sell it again with the damages disclosed next time
2 Likes
This seller doesn’t accept returns (look at the item info in the link OP provided). The only way he can return it is if he claims it either arrived damaged or not as described. If OP claims he just “changed his mind,” the seller can decline the return request and OP will have no recourse.
@zorloth, Buyers description also says the card is in mint condition. Card did not arrive in mint condition due to damage. So he can force a return in that case under “item did not match pictures or description”
1 Like
I agree. That’s what I meant when I said he could return it if he claimed it arrived “not as described.”
1 Like
I’m with qwa. Return the card and buy a better copy. Part of being a good seller is describing the damage if there is any *notable* damage, and a crease is a pretty big one.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I’ll be returning the card.
7 Likes
Hope it comes to a smooth resolution for you. Nothing worse than being super excited for a card to arrive and then noticing damage
1 Like
@zorloth, I am flabbergasted at how little recourse consumers have in the US. If anything I would assume it to be even more stringent than in the UK, but you are correct, there is no legal requirement to accept returns in the US.
In the UK the law regarding this matter is of such common knowledge that accepting returns is second nature to most sellers:
“You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you. You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.“
Tell ANDY we said Hi
2 Likes
Interesting. I didn’t realize that was a thing over there. Interestingly enough, the seller is UK-based. But I’m assuming OP is US-based. So I’m not sure how (or if) that law would apply here.
Either way, I think it’s fair to say the item wasn’t as described so I don’t think OP needs to choose a different reason.
1 Like
But according to PSA the card is mint.