1200 orders placed in first order distributed out. Second and thrid orders are placed which include international. the remaining 500 shadowless boxes are distributed to other regions. Add some zeros behind those numbers and the fact that the USA is a MAJOR consumer of products well beyond the rest of the world and it’s not that far out of reach. Let’s not also forget, the only major English speaking countries are Australia and UK with not even a 1/3 of the USA’s population. (I’m not counting Canada as they got some 1st eds)
Consider that the population of Australia was fewer than 20 million at that time, and Canada was fewer than 30, it stands to reason that most of the initial product would have been sold domestically.
I disagree that the evidence provided so far are anecdotes, if you’re looking for a confirmation from WOTC of the print numbers you’re not gonna get it, with your line of reasoning we should be taking the stance that 1st edition jungle could be more abundant than unlimited
Mostly what we see in the market place and what can be found on the PSA registry that we use to speculate. But neither 1st edition base or shadowless was available for weeks or even days after their release. As Gary mentioned earlier, they had already had ‘shadowed’ unlimited designed before either sets shipped to stores. Wotc believed the shadow and darker fonts were more aesthetically pleasing to the eye than its first printing run.
It is different. The shadowless sheets were used to stamp 1st edition cards. The design for base set changed mere days after they were first sold. 1st edition base and shadowless both sold out within days. Shadowed unlimited filled the reorders.
Sorry I don’t understand what that has to do with my post
edit; I think I got it. My point was we haven’t received print numbers from WOTC for any sets as far as I’m aware, curlers seems to be
looking for facts to prove 1st ed has lower print numbers, we haven’t got facts to prove 1st ed gym challenge is rarer than unlimited… but I’d bet he believes that to be the case
I know industry practices for 1st ed cards according to some konami guys talking about yugioh that 1st ed runs usually have a high percentage of their 1st print run designated for 1st edtion. According to this, I would believe that 1st ed would be more common than shadowless.
We have Scott saying that WOTC said they’re equal. According to this I would expect a even split.
I’ll take away the anecdote claim, and accept it as true claim that shadowless was in more regions, because it was. According to this I don’t know what to make of it, there’s too many variables that are left unchecked. If I had to make a guess based on this alone I would say shadowless is more common.
If there’s something else that can be provided I would love to hear it.
It means that the overall aesthetic of wotc cards never changed from that point on excluding the e-reader series. All 1st edition jungle looks like all jungle unlimited minus the stamp. 1st edition jungle sold out immediately like 1st edition base set AND what is now known as shadowless. Base set unlimited does not look like shadowless. 1st edition base set looks like shadowless because they were one in the same.
Yes, unfortunately it boils down to speculation but also from our own experiences at that time. It may have been twenty years ago but some of us still remember. Cullers makes good points, even when he’s telling me to pump the brakes. However, Gary was a seller and he would have seen a lot of product come through his hands during that time. A lot of it is still sealed I imagine from what he’s shared. When we see him talking to someone like leonhart and saying not to sleep on this set, that leads me to believe that that is an informed opinion from what the community knows of him. He is the godfather of shadowless after all. He created the distinction, and probably did so by looking at his own current inventory while giving heavy consideration to what he sold at the beginning of the hobby. And cullers, as a member of this forum I appreciate the insight you share, whether speculation or personal conversations you’ve had with people in the business. It’s very credible.
My friend, you sound like someone who has invested a lot of capital into 1st edition base set. This is a healthy discussion for us to be having. If the evidence (or lack thereof) leads one of us to hold a neutral position on the matter let them. We do know a few things, however. Both of these sets were printed and distributed at the same time together. There are fewer than twice as less gem mint shadowless charizards than 1st edition base set, along with other graded holos. Both sets of cards dried up within days of their release. And here’s the real speculation… Gary probably owns 40 percent of the gem mint shadowless charizards as well.
You don’t need to get personal bud, we’re just having a conversation here. Cullers doesn’t need you sticking up for him lol, PSA pop reports do provide some insight, but there are many sets wither lower pops than 1st ed base, not because they’re rarer, but because the set has not been in demand for as long, 1st ed base has always been the pinnacle, shadowless popularity is quite recent in comparison, plus shadowless cards haven’t always been distinct in PSAs eyes, we don’t know how many shadowless PSA 10s are out there with an unlimited label
The wotc claim, but I’d want to hear more about it. It would be the closest to the source. I’m not sure where I’m at on the scale. I’m prbobaly in the position that the shadowless print is rarer than 1st ed, but I never considered PCD cards in the past. I can’t image they’re more scarce due to how many there were, even the holo cards, I’d be shocked to find that there’s less of them than 1st eds.
No one is getting personal with you. But calling me bud, when we do not know each other, is making it personal. With your insistence to cullers you are trying to force a narrative that you do not truly know enough about. And that’s okay too, it’s just that you clearly were not around when this all happened. How often do you see shadowless cards in unlimited cases? Very seldom, if ever. I get it, it could be frustrating when someone new comes along with new information that contradicts, or questions, most of what you thought you knew to be true and accurate. Fact is you were sold a narrative in a similar way that audiences for CNN or fox news get sold on positions. Don’t go making things personal with me, sir. You’re not buddies with someone when you show that kind of attitude toward them.
You’ve misunderstood my tone then, who are you alleging I was condescending towards? I’m sharing my opinion which is allowed, I’m not forcing it on anyone. Every shadowless card graded before they got the shadowless distinction are in unlimited cases, unless they have been sent in to be recased. Calm down a little bit bud
