Thanks, Gary.
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Distributed at same time. Fortunately, you can get shadowless, which is scarcer, for a 6th of the price. Maybe people will wake up one day. 1st ed will likely always be worth more however from a ratio perspective, 1/6th is too cheap. Maybe a third or half the value is what the market will eventually decide.
When I saw the first post, and then there was 46 replies, I knew I was in for a good time
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People are saying scarcer because the pop is lower. That doesn’t inherently mean scarcer, it typically means less people care to submit. 1st Ed Base always had demand graded. Shadowless didn’t until maybe 5 or so years ago.
As for the print runs it’s super simple stuff: wotc stamped one print run with 1st Ed, the rest remained unlimited. It just happened that they changed the design after they stamped base. Shadowless is the first unlimited release.
Also the narrative around shadowless being the first print is a myth. Every set has the same process; first printed “unlimited” then stamped. People only hyper focus on shadowless because of the physical difference. Shadowless is ultimately a collectors term. It was distributed after 1st Edition.
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This is a very important factor that many people overlook, 1st Edition cards were available on the West coast of USA and a select stores outside that area. Shadowless cards were distributed to multiple countries outside the US including Australia etc. The ‘scarcity’ aspect might just be a byproduct of the cards being stretched over many countries.
The source for ALL 1st Ed Base set cards originate predominately in the west coast of the US only, on the other hand the distribution is much wider with shadowless. Shadowless has never felt scarce to me, outside obtaining gem mint grade but that has nothing to do with scarcity, Prerelease Aerodactyl has a ‘low’ 10 pop but that card was printed to smithereens.
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I feel this is the core of this thread and what caused the confusion.
@cullers focuses his responds on the print runs, where the 1st edition print run came before the Shadowless non-1st print run.
@btoise focuses his responds on the purchases, where the 1st edition and Shadowless non-1st were for sale at the same time at release in the US (from what I understand from this quote above).
In this case I’d still mostly think @cullers 's points are what’s the most important factor here: 1st edition Base Set were printed before the Shadowless non-1st one. But if they were indeed available for purchase simultaneously on the initial release, I guess both of them are correct (which means this entire thread is kinda pointless).
I personally live in The Netherlands, and the very first packs available at my local toy store was the English unlimited edition Base Set. 1st edition and Shadowless Base Set cards weren’t even available at most stores in The Netherlands. And I’m sure some stores would sell Dutch 1st and unlimited edition Base Set cards at one point, but my local toy shop never had any Dutch cards for sale, everything was in English. So for me the ‘very first set’ was the English unlimited edition Base Set. 
I still can’t argue that the 1st edition Shadowless print run was the first to be printed however, which is a fact.
But regardless of what came first, most people prefer to collect the 1st edition print run above the non-1st edition print run for sets (unless they prefer to collect the unlimited edition out of financial choices).
PS: The egg came before the chicken, since dinosaurs laid eggs as well.
Greetz,
Quuador
I think relevant point is that I saw shadowless packs and booster pack open and some cards were 1 edition as well as other shadowless ones without 1 edition. I even saw holo 1 edition I saw in shadowless packs two time.
Did the same thing happen to someone
My preferences are 1st Edition > Shadowless > Unlimited. I think the color difference between 1st/Shadowless makes them more visually appealing than Unlimited. I’m glad shadowless is cheaper and I hope it stays that way. If it wasn’t, I’d never have been able to complete a binder set in my price range.
Yes there are 3 types of “shadowless” packs:
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shadowless with 1st Edition uncommons
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all shadowless
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all unlimited
These packs showcase how product was released. The leftover 1st Ed cards from the first release, then completely shadowless, then lastly unlimited.
What do you think the ratio is for shadowless to 1st? Any idea? It appears, there is always more 1st base set stock on ebay compared to shadowless. If people are still waking up to shadowless that’s an indicator of shadowless’ bright future, a treasure yet to still be discovered by some!
According to WOTC they are the same.
My experience is the opposite. Shadowless complete sets are constantly available. Where at least for awhile 1st Ed base were not. Also in my area growing up a few people had shadowless, absolutely nobody had 1st Edition Base. 1st Ed Base was heard of but never seen.
The initial demand was extremely high even before the sets were first released. Think the first weekend of Pokemon Go, but with even more interest for these cards. Members like Cullers and Gary suspect that more of the initial run was stamped than otherwise first intended. This does appear to be the case from everything the market tells us. Just look on eBay, and more importantly the PSA POP reports. Remember that the 1st edition stamp was not printed onto the card but rather stamped onto the regular unlimited cards after the initial print. This was a shared print. I think Gary said earlier in the thread, and I believe I’ve heard him say elsewhere that the shadowed unlimited was the intended product that wotc wanted to sell but their printers weren’t ready to accept the new designs before the release date. Base set unlimited AND 1st edition base were sold out within the first few days of the release. Shadowed appeared very quickly after as they were the 2nd print and beyond. The leftover ‘shadowless’ prints that wotc viewed as inferior to their ‘shadowed’ product was shelved and used as replacement cards to send to customers who called them to report damage to their new, ‘shadowed’ cards. Apparently Gary made out quite well sending in regular shadowed cards that were replaced with shadowless. Shadowless has the added guarantee of authenticity that 1st edition base set cannot provide.
I know what you’re saying, in that shadowless cards can’t be faked from other cards. You’re using Gary’s line of you can’t remove a stamp, but you can take a card and add a stamp to it. Be careful with the “you can’t fake a shadowless card”. You can fake a shadowless card just as much as you can fake a 1st ed.
Everyone who’s been in the hobby for a while can tell if a 1st ed stamp is fake or not if they know what to look for. Even well done fakes can’t get past the finishing process of a card to get a bond that’s permanent.
If we ever enter an era where we can’t detect the difference between a 1st ed and a faked 1st ed on a shadowless card we’ll be in an era where shadowless cards aren’t any safer.
@smpratte when did WOTC say it was the same? To me that doesn’t make sense, industry practice for 1st ed cards is to use a large percentage of the first print as 1st ed cards. Obviously, it’s not always done this way. Media factory made entire prints and print runs the same.
I would agree you can’t find 1st eds as easily, but that’s not necessarily because of scarcity. The second part of your text is mostly anecdotal and could easily be explained as 1st edition is more sought after.
I couldn’t imagine shadowless being more scarce than 1st ed, we even had shadowless for sale in Australia lol
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I had heard of times where fake stamps had gotten past the PSA authentication process. My line of thinking, that I did not clarify but should have, was that an outright fake shadowless card would be difficult to get through PSA. Above all else, I feel this conversation is good to be had for all of us in the hobby. I believe it helps maintain interest.
I don’t think we should be using biases to prove this point. I understand why people think the way they think. I’m sure there are people in regions where they got 1st ed don’t think 1st ed are as scarce as they are.
I’m willing to accept any data that says one way or the other. I’m not pretending to know which one is actually rarer than the other. I don’t want anecdotes though.
Can someone point me to the 1st Edition Base theme decks?
1st Edition was allocated to mostly the coast. Stores never received any where I lived. They did however have shadowless, because “shadowless” wasn’t a thing in the eyes of wotc. Shadowless was definitely rarer than unlimited, but it was more widespread.
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I don’t think the fact that Australia got shadowless combined with me living in Australia makes me biased lol, it’s a fact that several more countries also received shadowless shipments, while apparently only a portion of America got the 1st edition run. Put two and two together, it’s pretty simple 
Are you saying the combination of PCD sheets and the initial booster pack runs sheets in combination make more shadowless cards available than 1st ed?
I could buy into that, but then it would be a statement of shadowless cards found in PCD are more common than 1st ed, and 1st ed are more common than shadowless not found in PCDs.