Chicken? Egg?

[woolsluk]

I’m sure most people know that they were distributed at the same time… initially. Your question should be more how much of the country got 1st and and how much got shadowless followed by was shadowless distributed more than once. You seem to have neither answer and are kind of arguing a point that you don’t have any evidence for?

[acebren]

@btoise

@cullers

I know what you’re trying to say, but it’s wrong. WOTC fulfilled their first orders with 1st edition. The only reason shadowless were sold too is because WOTC didn’t have enough 1st editions to sell on their first order. Their distribution went based on region.

Saying they were sold first isn’t correct. It’s a consequence of WOTC not meeting demand. It’s misleading to say they were sold first. If you want to say they were distributed at the same time, you’re correct, but still misleading. Shadowless was distributed more than once, while 1st ed was only distributed once. If you want to say they were the 1st print run you’re correct, but we season efour members already know that.

On day 1, both of these sets were made available to purchase at the store. They were shipped alongside each other, and received by sellers at the same time. That is what matters.

but its quite plausible that owners were shipped a combination because there wasn’t enough 1st edition boxes to fulfil their order, correct?

[btoise]

To clarify, they were considered the same run. 1st edition was not a separate order by the distributors to these stores who received their shipments. 1st editions were distributed along the west coast from California up to Canada, as well as New York I believe. Because this is such an important topic, it is important to note that WOTC never released print totals for any sets so all we will have to go on in the future are examples of minted cards issued to us by the PSA registry.

[btoise]

@acebren

@btoise

On day 1, both of these sets were made available to purchase at the store. They were shipped alongside each other, and received by sellers at the same time. That is what matters.

but its quite plausible that owners were shipped a combination because there wasn’t enough 1st edition boxes to fulfil their order, correct?

My understanding is that the owners didnt know what they were getting regarding 1st edition, or otherwise.

Edit 1: as in 1st edition was unknown at the time of orders.

[btoise]

@anon83099482

@btoise

To clarify, they were considered the same run. 1st edition was not a separate order by the distributors to these stores who received their shipments. 1st editions were distributed along the west coast from California up to Canada, as well as New York I believe. Because this is such an important topic, WOTC never released print totals for any sets so all we will have to go on in the future is examples of minted cards issued to us by the PSA registry.

Mike Boozer of WotC confirmed that Base Set had 8 print runs.
The first was the shadowless run of which a percentage were stamped as 1st Edition.
Runs 2-7 were regular Unlimited
Run 8 had the updated 1999-2000 copyright date

Can he be reached for comment at this time? Is it possible for him to get true numbers on these runs or to even speculate? I dont understand how these records could not have been kept for bookmaking purposes.

[acebren]

@btoise

@acebren

but its quite plausible that owners were shipped a combination because there wasn’t enough 1st edition boxes to fulfil their order, correct?

My understanding is that the owners didnt know what they were getting regarding 1st edition, or otherwise.

Edit 1: as in 1st edition was unknown at the time of orders.

I’m not commenting of what the owners thought they were getting, but the fact is there was likely a clear plan by wotc or the distributors to distribute the 1st edition run first, which happened. the reason it may not appear to be the case is because the 1st edition run sold out so quickly that the unlimited was shipped at the same time.

[cullers]

@btoise

To clarify, they were considered the same run. 1st edition was not a separate order by the distributors to these stores who received their shipments. 1st editions were distributed along the west coast from California up to Canada, as well as New York I believe. Because this is such an important topic, it is important to note that WOTC never released print totals for any sets so all we will have to go on in the future are examples of minted cards issued to us by the PSA registry.

Are you saying that if WOTC had an over abundance of 1st ed cards compared to orders placed they would have shipped out shadowless too?

I wouldn’t completely disagree with this just because it’s a business policy, but it’s not something I would believe without proof. I know Konami did this with yugioh, but it’s hard to prove with WOTC unless there’s an example that could be pointed to where this has happened before.

WOTC themselves have a practice where they make both the 1st ed and unlimited. I do t know the exact percentage that become 1st ed out of the print run, but it’s significantly high. So we already know that shadowless has to be more scarce than 1st ed base on that info alone.

Ultimately the distribution method doesn’t matter. I think print runs are more interesting anyways, but it’s fun to know the history. I think most seasoned efour members have a general idea of what happened. Knowing the exact regions would be fun to learn from my perspective.

[btoise]

@acebren

@btoise

My understanding is that the owners didnt know what they were getting regarding 1st edition, or otherwise.

Edit 1: as in 1st edition was unknown at the time of orders.

I’m not commenting of what the owners thought they were getting, but the fact is there was likely a clear plan by wotc or the distributors to distribute the 1st edition run first, which happened. the reason it may not appear to be the case is because the 1st edition run sold out so quickly that the unlimited was shipped at the same time.

Acebren, they were printed at the same time.

[btoise]

@cullers

@btoise

To clarify, they were considered the same run. 1st edition was not a separate order by the distributors to these stores who received their shipments. 1st editions were distributed along the west coast from California up to Canada, as well as New York I believe. Because this is such an important topic, it is important to note that WOTC never released print totals for any sets so all we will have to go on in the future are examples of minted cards issued to us by the PSA registry.

Are you saying that if WOTC had an over abundance of 1st ed cards compared to orders placed they would have shipped out shadowless too?

I wouldn’t completely disagree with this just because it’s a business policy, but it’s not something I would believe without proof. I know Konami did this with yugioh, but it’s hard to prove with WOTC unless there’s an example that could be pointed to where this has happened before.

WOTC themselves have a practice where they make both the 1st ed and unlimited. I do t know the exact percentage that become 1st ed out of the print run, but it’s significantly high. So we already know that shadowless has to be more scarce than 1st ed base on that info alone.

Ultimately the distribution method doesn’t matter. I think print runs are more interesting anyways, but it’s fun to know the history. I think most seasoned efour members have a general idea of what happened. Knowing the exact regions would be fun to learn from my perspective.

I agree. It is fun to speculate. Like yourself, I would eventually like answers to the speculation. I have also heard that percentage of 1st edition stamps on wotc initial runs was high as well. But that detail is something that tends to be glossed over time and again.

[acebren]

@btoise

@acebren

I’m not commenting of what the owners thought they were getting, but the fact is there was likely a clear plan by wotc or the distributors to distribute the 1st edition run first, which happened. the reason it may not appear to be the case is because the 1st edition run sold out so quickly that the unlimited was shipped at the same time.

Acebren, they were printed at the same time.

im not disputing that

[cullers]

@btoise

@cullers

Are you saying that if WOTC had an over abundance of 1st ed cards compared to orders placed they would have shipped out shadowless too?

I wouldn’t completely disagree with this just because it’s a business policy, but it’s not something I would believe without proof. I know Konami did this with yugioh, but it’s hard to prove with WOTC unless there’s an example that could be pointed to where this has happened before.

WOTC themselves have a practice where they make both the 1st ed and unlimited. I do t know the exact percentage that become 1st ed out of the print run, but it’s significantly high. So we already know that shadowless has to be more scarce than 1st ed base on that info alone.

Ultimately the distribution method doesn’t matter. I think print runs are more interesting anyways, but it’s fun to know the history. I think most seasoned efour members have a general idea of what happened. Knowing the exact regions would be fun to learn from my perspective.

I agree. It is fun to speculate. Like yourself, I would eventually like answers to the speculation as well. I have also heard that percentage of 1st edition stamps on wotc initial runs was high as well. But that detail is something that tends to be glossed over time and again.

I think I was told industry practice is around 60-75% of the first run is used for 1st edition. I have no clue what WOTC used, but it’s almost guaranteed to be more than half.

[pfm]

@cullers

This same practice happens with a lot of sets, if jungle unlimited and jungle 1st ed went out at the same time would it matter? Collectors care about shadowless not because they think they’re the first print run, but because they’re visually different.

This thread should have ended here.

[KingPokemon]

I love Shadowless cards and have since the first one came out of a pack. I’m not talking value either. I’m talking story. You gotta admit. It’s a great story.

[missingno]

@KingPokemon

I love Shadowless cards and have since the first one came out of a pack. I’m not talking value either. I’m talking story. You gotta admit. It’s a great story.

Which one was distributed first big dawg end this now -___-

[yeticards]

For whatever its worth… I grew up in a small community off the coast of BC, Canada. I remember the very first cards I picked up from the local London Drugs within the first week of whatever stock they had left and weren’t flying off the shelves were 1st edition stamped cards… everything after were shadowless and the bulk of my original collection were shadowless cards. We in fact in my area didn’t even see unlimited cards until Jungle was released and I never even personally opened a single unlimited pack.

The 1st edition and shadowless boxes that were at the local stores were also being sold side by side depending on what came in or what stock they had, but I don’t think many kids put much thought into the edition and were just buying up whatever they could at the time.

[btoise]

@yeticards

For whatever its worth… I grew up in a small community off the coast of BC, Canada. I remember the very first cards I picked up from the local London Drugs within the first week of whatever stock they had left and weren’t flying off the shelves were 1st edition stamped cards… everything after were shadowless and the bulk of my original collection were shadowless cards. We in fact in my area didn’t even see unlimited cards until Jungle was released and I never even personally opened a single unlimited pack.

The 1st edition and shadowless boxes that were at the local stores were also being sold side by side depending on what came in or what stock they had, but I don’t think many kids put much thought into the edition and were just buying up whatever they could at the time.

It’s funny, about 20 minutes ago I was remembering the same thing. The boxes were right next to each other on top of the glass on release day. But they were, however, flying off of the shelves. Were you located on the lower island by any chance?

[cullers]

@missingno

@KingPokemon

I love Shadowless cards and have since the first one came out of a pack. I’m not talking value either. I’m talking story. You gotta admit. It’s a great story.

Which one was distributed first big dawg end this now -___-

There’s no debate on this. They were distributed at the same time, shadowless continued to be distributed, and unlimited after.

There wasn’t actually any debate, just a semantics clarification to prevent misleading information. The issue is in the term sold. WOTC sold 1st ed first, they distributed and produced both at the same time.

Untrue example, but to help with clarification:
If WOTC made 10 1st ed boxes and 10 shadowless boxes they took orders and shipped them out the following week. If they got 10 or less order only 1st ed would be shipped out the following week.
Instead they got 15 orders so both 1st ed and shadowless were shipped out.

That’s the basic principle. Yes, both were distributed at the same time, but they were sold at different times.

[jakew1992]

Why is this a discussion again

[btoise]

@cullers

@missingno

Which one was distributed first big dawg end this now -___-

There’s no debate on this. They were distributed at the same time, shadowless continued to be distributed, and unlimited after.

There wasn’t actually any debate, just a semantics clarification to prevent misleading information. The issue is in the term sold. WOTC sold 1st ed first, they distributed and produced both at the same time.

Untrue example, but to help with clarification:
If WOTC made 10 1st ed boxes and 10 shadowless boxes they took orders and shipped them out the following week. If they got 10 or less order only 1st ed would be shipped out the following week.
Instead they got 15 orders so both 1st ed and shadowless were shipped out.

That’s the basic principle. Yes, both were distributed at the same time, but they were sold at different times.

There is no debate at this point. Wotc was taking orders for weeks before its initial release date. The day the cards were released, both sets were then available to purchase by the public. Yes, we may be getting into semantics here, but I feel the question should be at what point were both sets of the cards available to purchase by the public. People knew these cards were coming and the anticipation was high leading up to the day of it’s original release. And cullers, I value your perspective here, I initially mistook your understanding of the situation and I regret that.

Edit 1: I bought my shadowless set the day the cards were released for sale to the public.

[KingPokemon]

@missingno

@KingPokemon

I love Shadowless cards and have since the first one came out of a pack. I’m not talking value either. I’m talking story. You gotta admit. It’s a great story.

Which one was distributed first big dawg end this now -___-

Initially all sheets were shadowless.
The first “cut” sheets were stamped and supplied the 1st Ed run. The remainder of the sheets were cut without being stamped. The numbers were based on a 10% 1st and 90% Unlimited estimate (It didn’t turn out this way though). This was necessitated due to a very unexpected order demand. New artwork was in the works but not programmed yet. Once the shadowed were ready to go the remaining already cut shadowless (both squared and not) were placed in the replacement room…for damaged returns.
The first two runs were quickly shipped out together, then the shadowed were shipped out.

One thing I can’t attest to are the exact number of stamped or unstamped shadowless sheets there were. Based on what was showing up on the west coast my guess would be more 1st Ed made the trip but that’s just an educated guess. The cases they came in both had the 1/99 inventory sticker. I never saw either with a different date.

Somebody mentioned the number of print runs. Boozer’s statement was that there were like 10 runs. That’s not significant because the runs weren’t all the same size.