Yeah I get what you’re saying. I remember when I first bought some mint vintage holos. Looking at mint Neo Premium File Meganium made me feel like I just traveled back in time 20 years, since I hadn’t seen a holo that clean and shiny since I was a little kid.
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I’m not aware the difference between cosmos and normal is (beside the pattern) so different.
I really wonder if PSA really has a database of each card with pattern. Could be possible
I doubt any grading company is keeping track of pattern placement, but the community can document confirmed altered cards. Let’s say you’re looking at a BGS 9 Neo Genesis Lugia on eBay. You could then match it against the known altered examples and see if any of the have the exact same holo pattern.
Cosmos holo patterns can and do repeat. They are not all identical like finger prints. However, a specific pattern when matched with unique wear to the card would be identifiable.
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It’s a repeating pattern, but the odds of it being in exactly the same place on the dot on two of the same cards are extremely low, especially when combined with centering as well as wear, as you said. So I think it’s a good metric as long as you look carefully.
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Talking about it is pointless. The only reason the certs were deactivated was bc of people submitting evidence, not bc PSA caught them. This has been going on for a few years now and PSA has yet to identify which cards are “altered”. They can’t do it. If they could they would’ve. Nobody’s opinion is going to change on what each individual believes is altering or not. What’s acceptable and what not is. The people that are exposing the ones doing it aren’t prohibiting the altering of the card. It’s just going to get the cert deactivated. Most logical thing for the ones “altering” cards would do is to not show cert numbers in the future. There’s literally nothing anyone can do to stop this from happening.
What is the main issue with cards being cleaned or otherwise? We fix lots of things when they get worn out like clothes, or getting a car detailed. If there’s something that could make a card look more like it was originally intended to is the actual problem just that people don’t like to feel duped?
I guess I’d just like to know what specifically people dislike.
would you buy a card that was altered with a substance other than water (damp qtip + friction/micro fiber cloth)?
I dislike that various substances are used on the actual card.
It feels the same as trimming or using a sharpie, things that near everybody would regard as damage. Theres also the fact that the people doing this are nearly all trying to deceive others by selling the kurt cards as mintier graded copies, which the cards arent. Psa (or other grading services + people) not catching 100% of them doesnt mean the practice is justified.
Im sure there are some specific pages and links about grading company stances towards alterations like this. If others want to do the work to provide them thatd be nice haha…since im lazy. I dont really need those statements to justify my own stance, but its another reason to not use these services.
I also question the logic presented in various discussions on altering cards that the materials arent detectable. I get the feeling they are, but psa cant be bothered to closely examine every single holo with the thousands of cards they grade a day.
My thoughts, not fully directed towards you, but yea.
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If i bought a PSA 9 Illustrator, unkowningly, that was a PSA 5 prior to being doctored. I’d be livid.
Practically nobody is using this service without the intention to dupe somebody into spending more money. If people genuinely cared about the “sentimentality” of a card they would disclose that it was “restored”. Again, practically nobody is doing that.
Question…If someone cracked a PSA 7 and polished it and did whatever else to the card and resubmitted it and it got a PSA 9 but disclosed that it was polished to the buyer would that still be bad or okay bc they disclosed it? If a car gets into an accident and you have it repaired and then sold it you would also disclose the prior damage. You’re not going to have a fender bender with a busted rear end and try and sell it for the price of a car that’s not damaged. Polishing cards with that Kurt’s crap doesn’t remove scratches. It may make it look shiny-er and not as fade but the scratches are still there. Removing those black dirt specks on a card I don’t think is bad tbh, but trimming and actually altering the card is a no no. Putting some polish crap on the card to make it look shiny isn’t as bad as trimming, fixing edges, getting creases and bends out. All is not okay but if putting the substance on a card to make it more shiny and it can’t be proven that it was ever done besides video evidence to me is just a waste of time trying to figure out how to spot it from happening. If PSA can’t determine if it’s been polished bc there’s no evidence of any substance left behind on the card there’s really nothing anyone can do. Idk I’d rather just crack a PSA 7-8 and sub until it gets a 9 or 10 then risk getting screwed out of the whole thing.
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I would ideally like a card that hasn’t been cleaned/altered with any glossy substances.
However, why is restoring books and comic books generally accepted, even by grading companies like CGC?
Never collected comics, but curious if it was always accepted.
In my eyes there are two problems here:
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Cards are sold without being properly documented as altered. If the card received an altered or “refurbished” label and could reliably be detected 100% of the time, then it wouldn’t be as much of a problem in my eyes.
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We don’t know what these “products” do to the cards over time. Most collectors would pay more for a card that has never been altered than for a “refurbished” copy that has a non-zero risk of deteriorating in the future due to the applied product aging.
There are substances that do remove blemishes from the holo surface. Even PlastX can do so. I think what you are saying is a misconception. It’s not just polishing the card, it’s often altering the damage that the card endured.
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Fully disclosing it to a buyer is something that I’m perfectly fine with. It’s the non discolure and the current lack of ability for grading companies to detect it.
It’s just another post 2020 thing that makes me jaded about collectibles. Granted, card altering has been going on for years. Never would i have thought though that there would be companies openly advertising the service, then live stream themselves doing it. What a wild time to be collecter lol.
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Think of it this way: you wouldn’t repaint an original Ferrari 250 GTO because it has a few stone chips. You might restore an old rusted out barn find, but you’d use original paint, as well as include proper documentation of the process to the person who buys it from you. The problem isn’t people altering their own cards for their own collections, the problem is people trying to sell those cards to other people, especially when they don’t disclose it, which is pretty much always the case. The reason they don’t disclose it is because they know it would adversely affect the value of the card. It’s fraud.
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@Dyl I thought the Kurt’s cream just polished it and cleaned it. I’ve seen some of the videos and it doesn’t seem like the scratches are gone. Wouldn’t plastx just destroy the surface by removing layers? I’m not real informed on what these substances do to the cards. I thought it was just cleaning.
@amcgl58 I agree. I’d rather not buy a card that has been altered or “restored” in any way. I know people do it with cars for example but repairing a car to look new to fix it is almost certainly something that has to be done to get the most value and performance out of it. You need to have a car repaired for it to preform efficiently. With TCG cards the only reason someone would do this is to have some kind of monetary gain. Which is wrong bc you’re deceiving people and committing fraud in my eyes. It’s upsetting bc most people in the hobby and majority here have integrity and can recognize how it’s wrong. This guy Kurt and rocketcollect are capitalizing on doing this but making business and selling products. However they may not be committing a crime it’s still deceiving bc you’re taking the card from one state and putting it in another by either remove dirt,stains,scratches,etc. Me personally I wouldn’t want a card that I spend a few hundred dollars or thousands of dollars on and have questions about it. I’d rather not second guess myself or have any kind of controversy with it.
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Try it out! Substances like PlastX buff the card with abrasives. It’s also why it can remove scratches from cases as long as they aren’t extremely deep.
A card is not a car is not a coin is not a painting.
Restoration is not going to be viewed the same way in every hobby
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I’ve got an old base set hitmonchan I’ll try it on that. Also the guy in the videos is using microfiber cloth and cotton wipes wouldn’t that scratch the card anyway especially the holo?
Well the definition of the word by Webster and CGCs take it on is what Kurt and his cream(lol) are doing to Pokemon cards. They are essentially trying to make the card appear more like it did originally. Same with coins,antiques,cars,furniture,comic books,clocks,etc. the definition and action doesn’t change bc it’s a TCG card. I think in literal sense with this topic. Kurt’s cream is designed to restore or at least attempt to bring the card back to its original state.
