One-off’s happen as well and I think this would be one of those situations. Sounds like it is very telling if the seller displayed front and back of the card. Even without, this is a nonholo. That is an extreme example and understandably bummed if you are used to PSA 8s.
Is it that extreme for a less-than-mint BGS grade though? I’ll admit this is the first time I almost purchased a BGS card, so it doesn’t make a good impression on me that this was my first experience of considering a BGS card. (It’s a card I was absolutely about to purchase before I requested additional pictures and noticed the dent).
But even as @garyis2000 and others have said BGS seems to be known for being very inconsistent with less-than-mint cards.
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For BGS, I don’t shop for lower grades (<9), but I do think they are knowledgeable and experienced in grading card collectibles for Pokemon and Sports. They may have more experience grading older sports cards and use similar criterias. While Beckett has support for pokemon cards since 1999 (even used to have magazines), they don’t do much marketing or spotlighting pokemon. There are never really grading deals for pokemon as far as I am aware, as much as their focus is on the sports industry, which is too bad.
For Numbers… To even get BGS 10, can only get .5 off of 4 categories. 2 10s and 2 9.5’s is only 9.5 even though that average is 9.75 and that rounds up. They round down. Centering is typically a throwaway and that’s all they will allow.
This is just incorrect. They are held to different standards. Neither wrong, neither right, neither better, neither worse. Just different. If you said PSA was more consistent with their standards I could agree with you there as I think they are more consistent than BGS with certain things, however neither is universally and objectively “higher”.
Just because BGS’s algorithm punishes surface imperfections less harshly doesn’t mean that is an incorrect thing to do. Honestly I strongly prefer a Masaki PSA 6 with a slightly imperfect corner to a Masaki PSA 7 or 8 with fairly heavy holo scratches and/or more general noticeable wear. I personally hate off center cards. I can envision a Masaki promo with slight corner issues that would score a PSA 6, yet a BGS 8 that I would vastly prefer over a Masaki promo that is OC and has light holo scratches that is a PSA 8 and a BGS 7.
Demonstrating the comparison of one card getting a BGS 8 and saying it would only get a PSA 6 to show PSA is better or has higher standards is just improper. Again, different standards. We could take a look at some PSA 10’s and PSA 9’s out there with weak centering that would grade no higher than a BGS 8 or 9 and come to the opposite conclusion just to demonstrate the flaw in that logic.
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A couple more points that I don’t think have been touched yet:
- Momentum: PSA is engrained in the Pokémon hobby. When you ask about grade of a card you immediately ask “PSA X”.
- Sets: People don’t want 50 PSA cards and 2 BGS cards in their Jungle set. They want a full set of PSA. So, I think it would be really hard to take hold. Unless you are grading your own set with BGS it’ll be close to impossible to find a full set of BGS cards.
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@gottaketchumall , Good points.
I do agree that some of the PSA 6 Masaki holos (cards that may have extremely subtle dents but are otherwise mint / gem mint cards) are more desirable to me than some PSA 8/9s that may be very off-center and have some other flaws as well.
It does show that different standards are just that - different standards. And depending on the card we may feel that those standards work better in different situations.
When I said “A PSA 10 is held to a higher standard than a BGS 9.5” the main way I was looking at it was this - Far more PSA 10s would successfully convert to at least a BGS 9.5 than there would be BGS 9.5s that successfully convert to PSA 10s (obviously, if we’re talking about a quad-9.5 with 2 10 sub-grades that’s very different than a card with 3 9.5 sub-grades and a 9).
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BGS is incredibly inconsistent with centering I was following the black label zard influx and a good chunk of them were off center I would be embarrassed if I paid a large premium for something with imperfect centering that got the BGS 10 score. I remember one of the earlier sales the back was very OC verging on PSA 9 territory that person paid thousands for that card. No financial guarantee either so you are stuck with it
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@hyruleguardian , 9.5’s are excellent and typically at least comparable to psa 10 imo.That’s funny you made that example with 3 9.5s and a 9 as incomparable to psa 10, whereas I am testing and think it can be.
Pretty much people just need to use their eyes and decide what they like to buy. Figure out if back edge wear is important or any of those other categories you you may acknowledge as important if you are that particular about it.
@shizzlemetimbers , ‘the bgs back was very oc for a 10’… whats going on with psa 10’s back or front centering. What the hell, nobody is going to question those 10s.
Are you guys blind? Or does the thinking stop after a certain point before you realize BGS 10 is great. What are we talking about
@dblast I didn’t say that a BGS 9.5/9.5/9.5/9 is “incomparable” to a PSA 10 (that seems extreme). I just wouldn’t typically expect such a card to convert to a PSA 10 because of the way PSA grades (that is to say if PSA deems any one of centering/edges/corners/surface to be “9 worthy” than the card they won’t grade the card as a 10).
And the fact is that anyone selling a BGS 9.5 (especially one with lower sub-grades) probably don’t have much confidence in the card being able to convert to a PSA 10, or else they would just make the switch and sell the card for a much higher price.
I collect both, neither of these companies is perfect, I sell and own more PSA cards, but am happy that BGS grades non japanese / english cards outside of base set. I just find it funny how people hate BGS without ever having owned a graded card of them.
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@dblast, PSA has clear parameters for what they allow for centering 65/45 not perfect score etc BGS puts a 10 out of 10 score on their label for centering so when you see an off center card with 10 out of 10 for centering it is pretty obvious
@hyruleguardian , They are already encased in the protective BGS slab to be passed onto the next collector, as a pokeshop service. Sure some of them do convert the 9.5 or they just sell the 9.5 and buy several to submit for psa 10. Why is this thread getting so price analytical already.
we’re here to talk about the BGS and PSA cases?
@shizzlemetimbers , yes they have parameters but you’re talking about the back of the card being OC and you are urked. I’m sorry bud, it happens once in awhile. If the front always gets 10 and it’s o/c as heck, what do you say?
I know this is not my thread but I feel like it’s going to get locked soon
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I think most people (myself included) care more about what the grades say about the cards inside the cases rather than the cases themselves. Respectfully, I don’t think you would be able to find many people here who care much about which cases provide better protection against water damage. Most people feel that PSA cases are perfectly sufficient protection for valuable cards.
But if we’re simply talking about the plastic itself, to me the fact that PSA cases are much thinner is a huge positive. It may not matter much if you own a small handful of cards, but when you own hundreds of graded cards that becomes a very big deal - at least for me.
I also personally prefer to own a card without having to think about the sub-grades. Even if I know that a PSA 10 isn’t literally perfect (neither is a Black Label BGS 10 for that matter) it’s enough for me to know that the card is of an extremely high standard with no notable flaws. I don’t like how a BGS 9.5 makes me think more about the flaws that are present as a result of having all the sub-grades in view every time I look at the card.
I also don’t like how people say that because of all the extra plastic in a BGS case the presentation is more distorted compared to looking at a card through a PSA case.
But this is all just personal preference and I understand that people have different perspectives. I understand that some people prefer to know exactly what all the sub-grades are and that some people prefer the extra plastic / protection.
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I meant in regards to price speculations, prefer to stick to grades and case. Then again, this isnt even my thread.
I also noted that some like to be ignorant and not see where the grades could reveal. I mean it’s fine
Did I mention I collect damaged japanese cards, where the grades really dont matter. They’re beautiful art work and everything!
Stop feeding the troll…it is pointless to argue objective facts with people who will not accept them.
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I’m trying not to feed these trolls but some actually think PSA is superior, it is very hard to reason
Despite dblast’s obvious attempt at trolling earlier in the thread I actually think the last couple of pages of discussion have been perfectly reasonable.
Having said that, I think we’ve just about hit the end of the back-and-forth.
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Like if price wasn’t a factor in this, and the grades revealed BGS 9.5/10 vs PSA 10 they’re all pretty good I’d say. The Bgs is probably better but that might anger people who collect predominately psa. Who does that though? Collect BGS AND Psa.
Oh you were talking about me being the troll? Nono, you are mistaken, I support both companies.