Beckett (BGS) Grades an altered Pokemon autograph, hides my comment telling them what they did

Grading
, , ,
1

BGS recently posted an Ariga autograph Beckett Collectibles on Instagram: "Signed by illustrator Hitoshi Ariga, this 9.5/10 Charizard XY Promo features a striking silhouette portrait image of Charizard, complete with fire breath and red accents. 🔥 @arigamegamix"

image
image1080×1960 174 KB

Based on the date, this autograph was done at the 2023 Hartford Regionals: 2023 Hartford Regionals - Victory Road. At this event, all autographs required English personalization. I had a role in running this event.

The autograph was altered, authenticated and then showcased on their instagram. They even tagged Mr. Ariga. As you can see above, I commented to clarify exactly the issue I saw with the post (perhaps a bit sarcastically, but it’s instagram after all).

They ended up hiding my comment so I can see it but other users can’t, what you would call a shadowban (but it seems to be limited to the comment, not to my account).

So if they don’t want to platform my commentary, I will do it myself on here.

Discussion part

To make this a more productive post, I actually want to have a discussion. We are still in the growing stages in this hobby. Autographs especially. There’s a lot of weird stuff that happens in this segment of the hobby that is pretty specific to Pokemon and I don’t think the grading companies are really in a position to be “experts” in this area yet simply because we are all collectively learning the expertise.

One discussion I had in private recently was whether or not a grading company should put an altered autograph like this one in a slab. Technically, they are assessing the autograph itself and the autograph in the BGS post it legitimate.

The question is whether removing a personalization or adding something like the blackface charizards: The Emerging Trend of "Coloured" Charizard Arita Autographs should prevent a card from being slabbed.

The problem is, if there is 0 evidence of something being removed from the autograph or if it’s impossible to know who added the extra ink, should these cards not be authenticated? Is it the grader’s job to only authenticate the autograph? Is it the buyer’s responsibility to have an understanding of what they are buying?

Let me know your thoughts

25 Likes
2

I think sadly you’re just going to see more and more of this until the grading companies decide they will only authenticate personalized autographs…which wont happen.

Also - how is this person removing the ink without messing their card up? I dont really understand that but perhaps we shouldnt discuss it on here and give anyone bad ideas.

1 Like
3

alcohol based solvents

2 Likes
4

Tough thing there is there are many legitimate autographs that were done before personalization became more prevalent

5

A grading company’s job is to authenticate the autograph. Anything else beyond the signature is free game to be altered, unfortunately. It’s the buyer’s job to be informed.

3 Likes
6

Yeah I know, so thats why I just dont see any way around this problem. Theres so many greedy people doing shady things with autos right now and its pretty sad because a lot of us cant even make it to an event to get something signed for our own collections.

1 Like
7

I think removing or adding ink to any part of a card is considered “altered” and most would agree with that. Whether or not it should be authenticated is another Q. Personally I’d say “Yes” to authentication only if marked as “Altered.” Regardless if it’s an autograph or not it should be known as altered. When people “ink” a card to make edge whitening “disappear” it’s altering so why should this be any different?

Also I want to note that BGS has even made mistakes authenticating fake autos. This Naoki Saito one sold on PWCC a while back: Human Verification

The original seller on Yahoo Japan sold other fakes including the Saito:
• Fake Arita: Yahoo!オークション - ポケモンカード スイクン 有田満弘サイン
• Another fake Arita: Yahoo!オークション - 1円スタート 有田満弘先生サイン ポケモンカード...
• Fake Arita shikishi: Yahoo!オークション - ポケモンカード 有田満弘 直筆サイン色紙 カード...
• Fake Naoki Saito: Yahoo!オークション - さいとうなおき先生 直筆サイン ブルーの探索sr ...

It’s rather embarrassing these bigger grading companies authenticate autographs when they lack the knowledge to even spot fakes. Unsurprising they would miss an altered card.

2 Likes
8

Tbf while it’s definitely some flipper tactics, the auto is still authentic. I’d personally prefer altered in the label. The person running their social media is probably some minimum wage employee who doesn’t even know Ariga. Hell most people in pokemon think Ariga is Arita misspelled. :upside_down_face:

25 Likes
9

I do not understand how any of these companies are authenticating autogrpahs they have zero expertise in. What are they basing “Authentic” autographs off of…? Where is the starting point that gives them assurance in what they’re doing?

If PSA/BGS/ETC want to make claims as to being the top dogs in the hobby, authenticate Pokemon autos, then the bare minimum they should be doing, is keeping up with the hobby and current events. (Personalizations required, When and where artist are signing)

Slabbing these re-colored cards, wiped cards, etc, just shows how disconnected they are from Pokemon.

18 Likes
10

Whats their policy? Is it authenticating autograph (signature) only or is it assessing everything the artist puts on it? If they are claiming to only authenticate the signature then the rest of the card should be graded accordingly for being inked.
I wont feel bad if that means it counts as altered because they require personalizations at signing and the autograph gets a 10, at least the values would drop and these shenanigans around them would lessen. It would even bring the focus back to the autograph experience being the main point and not the flippable value.

I dont mind grading companies not being present for autographs but if you cant do the job of authenticating when thats what youre being paid for, then dont be surprised when you are called out and have to recompense for it.

1 Like
11

To be honest, this point moving forward, having an autograph slabbed by PSA, BGS or anyone, is actually meaningless. I say that seriosuly. If there isn’t an actual expert looking at these autographs and knows what theyre doing, then in my eyes, that just defeats the purpose and makes them all worthless across the board.

Edit: Their opinion worthless, not the cards themself.

9 Likes
12

Just to clarify my own position. I’m not actually against them slabbing either this autograph or the blackface charizard. I tend to agree with what @Dyl says that the “authentic” is purely it’s an assessment of the autograph only.

But at the same time these grading companies don’t make it clear themselves whether they want to put an altered autograph like this in a slab. For instance, I believe PSA authenticated those well-known wiped Komiyas and ended up removing it from the database after the fact.

I also know that at least one of those blackface charizord buyers paid for it under the assumption that Arita was the one to colour it in.

Basically I think more clarity is needed from the companies about what it means for an autograph to be authentic. Another issue that hasn’t emerged yet but is bound to is what do you do with a real autograph and a fake sketch?

The reason I commented was because 1) they chose to showcase it 2) I’m assuming they would not have put it in a slab if they knew it was altered but more importantly 3) they actually tagged Mr. Ariga in it

7 Likes
13

This seems kind of complicated since no one buying will ever have 100% certainty what they are getting is real. Arita is now known for doing many different requests at each event has been attending, so no one can assume every colored-in Charizard is fake.

Some artists have don’t personalize cards to begin with and some just forget to add it, so no one can assume all cards without a personalization is altered.

To my knowledge, no signature authentication company like PSA, BGS, JSA has any money back guarantee if the signature is fake. So, there is already a risk that’s been present since the beginning of signature authentication.

Since BGS doesn’t have a dedicated Pokémon expert that knows about the personalization rule at the Ariga signing, that’s why you see this card graded and slabbed.

The hard truth is buyers really have to be diligent when buying autographs.

14

I think the biggest L here was them actually tagging Ariga in the post.
Lame to grade it when the personalized part was erased but they are technically grading just the auto. But tagging the guy in a post where someone erased things he put on the card is what makes me the most irritated personally.

8 Likes
15

I agree with this, but to be fair if they didn’t know it was supposed to be personalized, maybe they saw nothing wrong.

In general, I don’t think any grading company should tag an artist since most don’t like it and find it odd.

3 Likes
16

Yeah but then when informed, they chose not to take down or edit the post and instead took down the critical comment.

11 Likes
17

Yeah i see what you mean. Want to have their cake and eat it too type shit. Grade them for the $, then remove if they get any heat.

I think its fine to authenticate DEpersonalized autos, and generally believe “removal” is ok. Though I think “adding” should be considered marked.

18

Yeah, that’s when they should delete the post. I’m just saying originally when they posted it, they most likely didn’t know.

I wonder if it will be deleted eventually if enough people start commenting negatively on the post.

2 Likes
19

It seems like every month, a new degenerate trend emerges from the Pokemon auto “community.” What could have been an incredible celebration of art and service to the franchise has turned sour and capitalistic. It really feels like the Vivid Voltage and Darkness Ablaze flippers were reborn and are stronger than ever.

I can’t wait until the markets are so flooded with Arita signatures that they lose most of their market value. Only then will things maybe return to normalcy.

8 Likes
20

That’s what I did, let the fun begin :melting_face:

2 Likes