kpod
June 22, 2020, 3:43pm
21
PSA 10 Shining Arceus hasn’t seen a price increase at all, while the Mew and Rayquaza have, so it’s definitely not that all cards across the set have seen increases.
I’m sure many people didn’t grade these cards as they weren’t a GX, full art, or a rainbow unless they were a popular Pokémon…i remember one of my first posts months ago was in sour grapes over a shining mewtwo that never arrived in the mail and someone replied it’s just a 10 dollar card…sigh …I never received it. How time flies.
Most of the Walmarts and Targets in my areas have Shining Legends on clearance fot the past few months with nobody buying it.
1 Like
lebleu
June 23, 2020, 3:27am
24
darky97:
fourthstartcg:
This makes no sense, you could attribute this to any card in the hobby that isn’t the original “super valuable card.” There are lots of factors at play besides just false equivalency which I don’t even think is a serious factor. By your standards all other Charizard cards are somehow a false equivalency to 1st ed PSA 10 Base, all Rayquazas are a false equivalency to gold star PSA 10, the list goes on. Are all Charizard cards and all Rayquaza cards besides the “OG” PSA 10s overhyped and non-rational buys? Of course not.
The rise in 9 prices are literally a direct reaction to the rise in 10 prices and people being priced out. The demand is organic, and the price rises are real. PSA 9 prices are still significantly lower and in most cases just rise in tandem with the 10 prices. Want a mint condition gold star Ray or T17? Don’t have 15-20k for each? Start buying 9s (and a lot of people have).
No Pokemon card has an inherent worth. It’s all social constructions and value attributions that are achieved as a group process. In these cases, a simple answer is probably the best. Why is Shining Rayquaza jumping in price? Is it because tons of people had their sights set on a gold star Ray PSA 10 but just now with the recent price rises can’t afford it, so they jump ship to other items? A few maybe. But maybe it’s just because Shiny Rayquaza is badass, and people like having a card of it. Its rise is mirrored among other Shining Legends and shiny Rayquaza cards as well. Not saying the prices won’t retrace in the future, modern especially I think is the most vulnerable, but attributing it to some extensive “false-equivalency” process just doesn’t explain it.
We can agree to disagree, I certainly do think that false equivalency is a major factor in the hobby. I also wouldn’t choose Charizard for any comparison because no matter the scenario, Charizard will always behave differently from other cards because of its iconic status.
At this point in time, there are so many people who just want to make a quick buck. They see the prices rising and want a piece of the cake, so they offer their cards for completely exaggerated prices that have nothing to do with organic demand. Example 4: Japanese Crystal Ho-Oh PSA 10. The price so far was way behind the English version (~$400-500), but now that the English version has gained in value significantly (3k+), certain people are trying to sell their Japanese copy for over $4000, which is completely irrational. False equivalency. Just because the English version got sold for 3k, doesn’t mean the Japanese version is suddenly at 4k just because it’s the same card. Admittedly, this is a particuarly clumsy example of trying to make money, but from a psychological standpoint I can see why these seller attempt this. It’s very understandable that someone who wasn’t ready to pay a certain price for a PSA 9 will be willing to do so after seeing the PSA 10 spike by 300% regardless whether the value of the PSA 10 of the card was only attributed to the number of PSA 10 copies available and nothing else, as is the case for T17 (again false equivalence, coupled with FOMO on any Typhlosion 17 of decent quality and a general flaw in thinking which I call bargain misconception - mistaking even way too expensive articles as bargain when seen in relation to a more expensive version of the article).
Insidious people will also use these psychological flaws to their own advantage by manipulating the market. They will buy some PSA 9s of a card, then set up a sale of a PSA 10 for an insane price (using an accomplice or secondary account), ‘buy’ the PSA 10 themselves for that insane price and subseqently offer their PSA 9 copies for 300% of the price they bought it for (which the people who saw the PSA 10 sell for that insane price are now more likely to buy). Even better, the seller would sell the first PSA 9 for 300%, the second PSA 9 for 350% and the third PSA 10 for 400% of the price they bought it for, cause hey, that sure looks organic, doesn’t it? The last piece of the puzzle is selling the PSA 10 one year later when the artificial hype that the seller caused has inflated the card to even more insane levels. There are variants of such schemes that are even less obvious, for example doing this with certain subsets of cards e.g. all Gold Stars instead of just one card in different PSA grades. For example, once a PSA 10 Rayquaza Gold Star sells for 20k, most other Gold Stars will increase in value - not because the pop report warrants it but because people saw the Ray sell for 20k and now want to make more money, so the seller who sold the Rayquaza for 20k just might happen to have other Gold Stars he will sell shortly after the prices increased in general. It’s all market manipulation 101.
I gotta say I 100% share that opinion. But I couldn’t quite put it into words as well as you! You’re pretty spot on
-Beautiful card
Why is the concept of a price increase so outlandish to some? Is this a bruh moment?
yz2428
June 23, 2020, 4:03am
27
darky97:
fourthstartcg:
This makes no sense, you could attribute this to any card in the hobby that isn’t the original “super valuable card.” There are lots of factors at play besides just false equivalency which I don’t even think is a serious factor. By your standards all other Charizard cards are somehow a false equivalency to 1st ed PSA 10 Base, all Rayquazas are a false equivalency to gold star PSA 10, the list goes on. Are all Charizard cards and all Rayquaza cards besides the “OG” PSA 10s overhyped and non-rational buys? Of course not.
The rise in 9 prices are literally a direct reaction to the rise in 10 prices and people being priced out. The demand is organic, and the price rises are real. PSA 9 prices are still significantly lower and in most cases just rise in tandem with the 10 prices. Want a mint condition gold star Ray or T17? Don’t have 15-20k for each? Start buying 9s (and a lot of people have).
No Pokemon card has an inherent worth. It’s all social constructions and value attributions that are achieved as a group process. In these cases, a simple answer is probably the best. Why is Shining Rayquaza jumping in price? Is it because tons of people had their sights set on a gold star Ray PSA 10 but just now with the recent price rises can’t afford it, so they jump ship to other items? A few maybe. But maybe it’s just because Shiny Rayquaza is badass, and people like having a card of it. Its rise is mirrored among other Shining Legends and shiny Rayquaza cards as well. Not saying the prices won’t retrace in the future, modern especially I think is the most vulnerable, but attributing it to some extensive “false-equivalency” process just doesn’t explain it.
We can agree to disagree, I certainly do think that false equivalency is a major factor in the hobby. I also wouldn’t choose Charizard for any comparison because no matter the scenario, Charizard will always behave differently from other cards because of its iconic status.
At this point in time, there are so many people who just want to make a quick buck. They see the prices rising and want a piece of the cake, so they offer their cards for completely exaggerated prices that have nothing to do with organic demand. Example 4: Japanese Crystal Ho-Oh PSA 10. The price so far was way behind the English version (~$400-500), but now that the English version has gained in value significantly (3k+), certain people are trying to sell their Japanese copy for over $4000, which is completely irrational. False equivalency. Just because the English version got sold for 3k, doesn’t mean the Japanese version is suddenly at 4k just because it’s the same card. Admittedly, this is a particuarly clumsy example of trying to make money, but from a psychological standpoint I can see why these seller attempt this. It’s very understandable that someone who wasn’t ready to pay a certain price for a PSA 9 will be willing to do so after seeing the PSA 10 spike by 300% regardless whether the value of the PSA 10 of the card was only attributed to the number of PSA 10 copies available and nothing else, as is the case for T17 (again false equivalence, coupled with FOMO on any Typhlosion 17 of decent quality and a general flaw in thinking which I call bargain misconception - mistaking even way too expensive articles as bargain when seen in relation to a more expensive version of the article).
Insidious people will also use these psychological flaws to their own advantage by manipulating the market. They will buy some PSA 9s of a card, then set up a sale of a PSA 10 for an insane price (using an accomplice or secondary account), ‘buy’ the PSA 10 themselves for that insane price and subseqently offer their PSA 9 copies for 300% of the price they bought it for (which the people who saw the PSA 10 sell for that insane price are now more likely to buy). Even better, the seller would sell the first PSA 9 for 300%, the second PSA 9 for 350% and the third PSA 10 for 400% of the price they bought it for, cause hey, that sure looks organic, doesn’t it? The last piece of the puzzle is selling the PSA 10 one year later when the artificial hype that the seller caused has inflated the card to even more insane levels. There are variants of such schemes that are even less obvious, for example doing this with certain subsets of cards e.g. all Gold Stars instead of just one card in different PSA grades. For example, once a PSA 10 Rayquaza Gold Star sells for 20k, most other Gold Stars will increase in value - not because the pop report warrants it but because people saw the Ray sell for 20k and now want to make more money, so the seller who sold the Rayquaza for 20k just might happen to have other Gold Stars he will sell shortly after the prices increased in general. It’s all market manipulation 101.
i agree, pokemon is not immune to buy-outs and market manipulation by these big fish, if it isn’t happening here and there already. there has certainly always been false equivalency to some degree because people need to find that alternative to satisfy their inability to buy the top-end card. however, i am sticking to the theory that we simply have a bigger market. the price bump may simply be that the demand spiked a bit and there is a lag in the supply. that and one of our members here owns 40% of all global supply…
1 Like
yz2428:
darky97:
We can agree to disagree, I certainly do think that false equivalency is a major factor in the hobby. I also wouldn’t choose Charizard for any comparison because no matter the scenario, Charizard will always behave differently from other cards because of its iconic status.
At this point in time, there are so many people who just want to make a quick buck. They see the prices rising and want a piece of the cake, so they offer their cards for completely exaggerated prices that have nothing to do with organic demand. Example 4: Japanese Crystal Ho-Oh PSA 10. The price so far was way behind the English version (~$400-500), but now that the English version has gained in value significantly (3k+), certain people are trying to sell their Japanese copy for over $4000, which is completely irrational. False equivalency. Just because the English version got sold for 3k, doesn’t mean the Japanese version is suddenly at 4k just because it’s the same card. Admittedly, this is a particuarly clumsy example of trying to make money, but from a psychological standpoint I can see why these seller attempt this. It’s very understandable that someone who wasn’t ready to pay a certain price for a PSA 9 will be willing to do so after seeing the PSA 10 spike by 300% regardless whether the value of the PSA 10 of the card was only attributed to the number of PSA 10 copies available and nothing else, as is the case for T17 (again false equivalence, coupled with FOMO on any Typhlosion 17 of decent quality and a general flaw in thinking which I call bargain misconception - mistaking even way too expensive articles as bargain when seen in relation to a more expensive version of the article).
Insidious people will also use these psychological flaws to their own advantage by manipulating the market. They will buy some PSA 9s of a card, then set up a sale of a PSA 10 for an insane price (using an accomplice or secondary account), ‘buy’ the PSA 10 themselves for that insane price and subseqently offer their PSA 9 copies for 300% of the price they bought it for (which the people who saw the PSA 10 sell for that insane price are now more likely to buy). Even better, the seller would sell the first PSA 9 for 300%, the second PSA 9 for 350% and the third PSA 10 for 400% of the price they bought it for, cause hey, that sure looks organic, doesn’t it? The last piece of the puzzle is selling the PSA 10 one year later when the artificial hype that the seller caused has inflated the card to even more insane levels. There are variants of such schemes that are even less obvious, for example doing this with certain subsets of cards e.g. all Gold Stars instead of just one card in different PSA grades. For example, once a PSA 10 Rayquaza Gold Star sells for 20k, most other Gold Stars will increase in value - not because the pop report warrants it but because people saw the Ray sell for 20k and now want to make more money, so the seller who sold the Rayquaza for 20k just might happen to have other Gold Stars he will sell shortly after the prices increased in general. It’s all market manipulation 101.
i agree, pokemon is not immune to buy-outs and market manipulation by these big fish, if it isn’t happening here and there already. there has certainly always been false equivalency to some degree because people need to find that alternative to satisfy their inability to buy the top-end card. however, i am sticking to the theory that we simply have a bigger market. the price bump may simply be that the demand spiked a bit and there is a lag in the supply. that and one of our members here owns 40% of all global supply…
Idk if this is directed at me, but if so I have like 20-30 psa 10s and there are 500+ psa 10s in the pop. So I doubt it’s market manipulation. It’s just people spending too much money for a really easy card to grade xD lol
2 Likes
Really? I’ve found the pull rates to be very abysmal in this set, considering there aren’t any booster boxes. Also, the centering is always pretty bad with this set’s print run…The only caveat would be that there’s a holo in every pack, worthless or not. Either way, I just hope that it’s organic growth and not a fad based on speculation, i.e. modern boosters boxes like unbroken bonds, team up, etc.
I always see people posting about this but none of my Walmarts have ever had any let alone on clearance boo
mrrawb
June 24, 2020, 5:37am
31
RayquazaTCG:
Stonks
I have a feeling you would never sell.