The Giant Professional Grading Thread

Grading
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3562

@bobleponge

I totally understand the emotions you’re feeling right now and you have every right to be upset.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you haven’t brought this to their attention yet. Before you continue with more libel, you should contact PSA and present your case. The card was sent to them in a slab and sent back in a slab with damage, correct? I’ve not dealt with this before, but I would think this is a no-debate situation and they ought to make it up.

You’ll find many experiences on here of people writing-off PSA only to come back later to report PSA and the person reached a satisfactory resolution. Hopefully that happens here even though the damage can’t be undone.

8 Likes
3563

I appreciate your response. I’m waiting for them to follow-up. If they merely replace the card, which would appear to be a best case scenario, then I stand by my statement that I estimate their penalty to be between 1 to 2 orders of magnitude too low for the insurance premium that they charge (($1000-$250)*2500*0.8). I’m saying this in light of the fact that apparently none of the $750 upcharge goes toward improving the service beyond what the $250 already provides. It’s even more ugly when you look at the “Premium 2” service tier. It is not ok for them to have a 90+% profit margin on their insurance service. People would be very reasonable to opt out of the service if they could and I sure hope they would. Free market isn’t broken. PSA still provides more value because of their leading market share, but they exploit their position to shove down our throat their 10 to 100 times marked up insurance.

I would like to see dramatically increased penalties, which should also lead to improved service at higher tiers.

3564

We’re at 7 days (5 business). I had the card shipped to a safe place and only noticed the damages when looking up the certification number and seeing the PSA scans. I suppose I will fall in the “Financial Guarantee of Grade” and, therefor, the best I will have is a grade review, a partial refund, in 8-12 months, against the new grade and no refund of the initial review. Insured at $24,000, I’ll be lucky to have $15,000 on a $750 insurance premium.

Unquestionably sound and fair. Sorry for the rambling. Moving on. You guys keep drinking the PSA Kool-Aid, although many of you might start to choke on it when you start grading high-ticket cards. PSA sucked everyone in with a low starting tier (probably at the same margin as competitors, thanks to their scale) and milk them at the higher tiers. Clever.

3565

@bobleponge,

I may be thick but what card is this? So I can look it up

3566

www.psacard.com/cert/07096004

I affectionally call it Wrath of God.

1 Like
3567

Interesting. Thanks for linking it.

3568

@bobleponge, maybe I’m missing something, but why was the card taken out of the case in the first place? I thought that PSA doesn’t re-slab the card unless the grade changes? Please correct me if I’m mistaken.

Really sorry to hear about your situation, btw. On the plus side, the value of the card is probably not affected much because it’s still a 9. If you consigned it to PWCC/HA/Goldin/etc., it would still likely sell for PSA 9 price. The damage is not immediately obvious in the scans, and the auctioneers obviously wouldn’t disclose it.

1 Like
3569

@zorloth, I think you’re right, so I suppose that the grader was seriously considering a grade bump and needed to look at the card up close or, less likely, was processing the grade bump. Then, the oopsie happened and they looked away.

I’m not ok selling this as a PSA 9, which is why I’ve been vocal about the certification number. I will admit that I have a hard time assessing the card’s grade, exactly because these dents are so difficult to see on scans. I believe this should be a grade 8. I would be shocked to buy this as a grade 9 (mint) and I’m not ok passing trash to others if they have no mean of making an educated decision (i.e. high-resolution scans that reveal no defect). Yes, I’m assuming that the graders and QA decided to sweep the downgrade under the carpet. A freshly recruited grader could’ve been scared to initiate the oopsie protocol or clueless about it and unwilling to go out of their way. The card probably didn’t go into all QA stages because the grade didn’t change.

The worst outcome would be the card returning as a 9, in which case I suppose that I should deem myself lucky if PSA doesn’t charge me another $1,000 for their expert hands and to re-re-insure the card…

To further my point, I should be rejoiced (a tall order) by the destruction of the card, if PSA had a warranty that is commensurate to their exorbitant insurance premium. I wasn’t giving too much thoughts about paying PSA $1,000 for a review, because I was only thinking about the risk and reward from having a grade bump or not (which by the way is another contentious subject). When you face the music and are reminded that this money is supposedly used to cover a 10 to 100 (easily) times marked up insurance, you got to realize how much of an abject money grab PSA is and how… sad it is for buyers to pay a 4-digit premium on a high-end card, just because it has a white and red label. The greater PSA’s market share is, the more people are compelled to choose their label to adhere to the grading and aesthetic norm. It’s as if X expensive clothing designer would manage to persuade enough people to buy their expensive label for it to become a strict social norm. Personally, I’m no longer ok supplying buyers with a $750 white and red label or buying it.

I’ll follow-up when PSA has decided what the outcome of this is.

4 Likes
3570

Maybe I missed something, but do you even know for sure PSA cracked the case and reslabbed this card? Did you send it in, in an old style label and case? If you send a card in for a review, they do not crack the old slab at all unless they can guarantee it it goes up to whatever your minimum grade specified was.

3571

@kpod , if you are correct to say that de-encapsulation equals grade bump, then I lost a PSA 10 label ($40,000+ on top of the current downgrade) and a hardly replaceable card. The card was sent in a 20 years old case, the ones with grooves on the sides to easily pry open. The irony. I can’t stop thinking about this.

1 Like
3572

@bobleponge well there is no question here that they replaced the old label with a new one based on your pictures. I would not automatically assume the card would have gotten a 10, although that could be the case. You will never know and they will certainly never admit to that. If you do sell the card as a 9 (which I realize you disagree with but the card is currently graded a 9). The buyer does have access to the PSA financial guarantee and if they decide to go down that road they will be compensated.

3573

PSA would just say they got all their top graders, Steve Sloan, Joe Orlando, and Nat Turner to review the card and they determined it is within the standards of a PSA 9 and therefore no compensation will be paid out lol

7 Likes
3574

This entire situation is terrible. It speaks to how broken PSA’s system is. I can see lower value cards getting messed up occasionally, but on a card that is so valuable and sought after… just wow.

Pursue action, don’t just take the loss. They should absolutely replace your unikarp or give you equal compensation.

3575

@apex, thank you so much for this.

I would like to repeat one last time, in hopefully fewer words, what has happened, in a way that may better resonate with people who read this just now and are newer to the hobby :

  • I paid PSA $1,000 for them to spend few minutes to consider changing the label of a $24,000 card so that it shows a “10” instead of a “9”, because the card really was a “9.5”. With the “10” label, the same card would now sell for over $66,000.

  • By doing so, PSA damaged the card so that it is now a “8.5” and kept the “9” label and said no word.

  • The outcome is to be determined, but I believe that PSA will not refund the $1,000 paid for them to damage the card. They will likely require months to either 1) assess the now “8.5” card as a “9” and return no money or 2) assess the now “8.5” card as a “8” and return the difference in value between the “8” and “9” grade, which is going to be around $5,000. Replacing the card right now to obtain a “9.5”, as it was, would cost $40,000, in other words $16,000 more than what I am left with.

Instead, I could’ve chosen to send the card to BGS or CGC. In normal times, this same operation would’ve cost $20 or $22, respectively, instead of $1,000. BGS would’ve encapsulated the card in a way that enhance the safety of the card, thanks to an inner sleeve. Both companies may provide a label showing sub-grades, which bridges the gap between the “9” and the “10” and entice collectors to be more critical (“this card has better x and y, but worse z” vs “this is 9 and this is a 10”).

Now, ask yourself why did I send the card to PSA. How it is that the hobby has come to that. If it is an healthy situation now and for the future. If you want to endorse this.

Also ask yourself what is the value of more discretionary grades and the use of an inner sleeve.

If you’re still not sure if the fees PSA charge are justified or not, also ask yourself what would’ve happened if the value of the card was $25,000 to $49,999, instead of $24,000. In this case, the fee for this operation, from PSA, would now be $2,000, instead of $1,000. What is it that this additional $1,000 would’ve bought? More careful manipulation of the card? Think again. Insurance when these catastrophes happen? Say we double the difference between the “8” and “9” grades from $5,000 to $10,000, is it right to pay an additional $1,000 for their risk exposure to pay an additional $5,000 in damages? Do they damage or badly misgrade 1 in 5 cards they touch? Worst case scenario, a “10” grade card that is 10 times more expensive than a “9” grade one at the limit of the bracket ($50,000). Does the $45,000 penalty they would pay justifies the $2,000 - $20 = $1980 insurance? Do they damage or badly misgrade 1 in 22 cards? Does that feel right to you?

And now a moment of silence for the poor souls who send a million dollars Honus Wagner or Mickey Mantle to PSA because of PSA’s dominance.

1 Like
3576

Sir this is a Wendy’s.

19 Likes
3577

I dare you send your trophies for a cross-grade and rename yourself the BGS evangelist !

/illbanmyself

3578

Dude, it sucks that your card got damaged. It really does. But you’re griping about things that aren’t even happening. “It was a 9.5.” This means nothing. And then you’re complaining about how PSA will react in your future fantasy that hasn’t even happened yet. Call them. Talk to them. That’s your best course of action.

Edit: oh nvm they are gone already

3579

Well that was a strange saga. I kind of hope they come back and tell us the outcome of talking to PSA tho

2 Likes
3580

Are PSA slabs water proof? Can they be submerged for long periods of time without damaging the card?

3581

no