The Charizard that PSA does not want you to see

www.ebay.com/itm/Pokemon-Card-FPO-For-Position-Only-Charizard-Expedition-39-165-Graded-9-Mint/163380062182?pageci=bd51b8b0-7836-4b8e-917d-10c813ef7e1f

This card is currently listed by a member of this community. It was a recently graded FPO Charizard that was encapsulated as the regular set version. PSA has made it clear (see email in that listing) that they do not authenticate this card. It’s existence is a clear oversight on their part.

Not only that but they also requested the card be sent back to them and removed from the case. The shipping and grading fee were the only compensation offered in the email.

Clearly, as this card is now listed again, it still exists somewhere in a case. The seller has mentioned over discord that PSA has cancelled all of his submissions currently in progress and presumably has banned him from using their service. This is for his noncompliance to return they card they graded by mistake.

I just thought people here would be interested in the story. There are a couple extra details I left out, it’s up to the seller to share them. What do you think of this?

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Who’s this ambiguous seller?

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Billy at it again!

So basically PSA screwed up and have removed all records of this. Does the fact that it was mistakenly graded effect the price at all?

This is more of a PSA anomaly than anything else.

Sounds like PSA is throwing a hissy fit, but I say sounds like because i don’t know all the details.

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It would seem PSA is raining down hellfire on a customer for a mistake they made themselves. Sure, the customer almost certainly listed the card as the regular Charizard from Expedition on the Item Entry in the hopes of the card slipping past their policy of not authenticating FPO cards, but it’s up to them to enforce their policy. It’s not like the FPO is printed in a microscopic font, it’s right there in white text. Unless I’m missing some information, it seems like a very excessive reaction on PSA’s end.

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Interesting stuff going on here. Two + experts missed the big bold white font all over the card. Lol. If someone clicked the buy it now and paid theoretically they would be covered under the PSA guarantee of grade an authenticity due to this being an inauthentic card. Whether or not PSA would pay out and what they would do with the card afterwards are big questions that I don’t have answers to but it is all an interesting thought.

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Actually the research department missed it. The grading experts grade everything sent to them and only slap numbers on them.
It’s an interesting point if someone bought it how would PSA handle it lol. I wonder if removing it from their data base clears them from having to honor that guarantee?

Scummy if they did and it would surely lose them some serious credibility.

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PSA: The “S” stands for “Sloppy.” :rofl:

I’m actually fairy impressed PSA made a mistake of this caliber.

And I’m appalled at how they are handling this, assuming everything reported here is true.

What they (PSA) have in front of them is a customer service opportunity to recover from. Rather than follow the standard customer service model of:

Listen to (or recognize) the problemApologizeFind a solutionRecord and/or follow up
Granted, that model has some variations on how it should function, but the point is this:
Listening/recognizing the problem:
Obviously the first place they went wrong. This should have never gotten past two experts plus a guy giving a grade. I can’t fault them too much here, they are human. But to have literally ALL of your safeguards fail is very odd. However the rest of this process (from the data we have available) is just a catastrophe.

Apologize:
Plain and simple: does not exist. The email sent was mechanical, and lacked any form of empathy for the client. Additionally the response given by the customer service manager was more of a command than anything. If you want to have a customer run from you this is a really great email to send. Additionally PSA has done a wonderful job of inconveniencing the customer without so much as a “were sorry”. You would be amazed at how far those two words go for people.

Find a solution:
In this case, PSA only offers one alternative and that is to return the card at the inconvenience of the customer. The customer should not have to place a card into a mailer (paid for or not) and then have that card returned to them in a state of decreased value. It’s great they are offering to refund the grading price. That is the right call, but there is no offer to refund the shipping (small as it may be, but it’s an opportunity). PSA could have approached this much differently but they simply decided not too.
Record/Follow up:
Does PSA have anything in place to keep this from happening again? Will a policy be enacted and communicated to customers? I can’t answer this, but I’m going to say no as I doubt PSA will want to admit fault of any kind. Additionally to hear that PSA will simply hold additional orders by this customer and will ban them from future use is a true slap in the face. THE CUSTOMER DID NOTHING WRONG! It is important for me to keep in mind I don’t have first hand evidence that this is the case (but I do trust PFM’s Intel on the matter) I have to bite my tongue here a little bit and simply keep in mind the possibility that this is not the case and I would really like to think that it is.

So how should this have been handled?
Here’s free advice PSA:
A screw up of this caliber is unusual, as such you can’t treat it like you would a usual mislabeled label. There is a difference between a simple error and a true falsification. You can’t run a correction on a news story that is entirely falsified, you have to admit to the falsification. A different approach is 100% necessary as you’ve taken your credibility and put it on the line.

The first thing that should have been done is a phone call needed to be placed. A human needed to be involved and not an electronic screen. I realize a phone number may not have been available, at which point an email would have been the correct measure, but the email has to have a different tone. Not: “Your order is wrong, you fix it at loss to you” tone. A tone of: “We are reaching out over an error we have made, we would like to call you at your convenience to fix this matter, thank you for your time.” When you humble yourself, people react differently it really does work that way, people will level with you.

On the solution front a lot of opportunity exist here. PSA can request the card back, there is no reason they can’t. However, they failed to realize they are putting a customer out, they need to offer more than the minimum. The following options could have been easily taken:

  • Offer a refund on grading, return shipping and insurance and a promise of an expedited return.- Credit towards the customer’s account. Let the customer tell you what they think a credit amount is worth. It tends to be reasonable.
  • All of the above with a guarantee of constant updates and communication to the customer.
  • A damn apology- Free membership (free grades included)- Credit towards any PSA merchandise (and yes, free shipping)

Everything I mention here is an absolute drop in the bucket to PSA it costs them almost nothing to do anything I’ve mentioned above. And it shows the customer that they give a damn, probably the most important part.

**Follow up:**Another simple thing to do that they have royally screwed up here: send a thank you note, or a thank you call. Cater to someone you have wronged. It’s okay to admit a screw up.

Here’s what I don’t understand, assuming again that everything PFM has posted is accurate: They took their ball home because they were losing the game, the way a five year old does.

Lets put this into perspective: You go to a pizza place and order several pizzas. They don’t make one of the kinds of pizza you request due to their policy, but then make it anyway for you. As soon as they give you said pizza, they realize they are not suppose to give you that pizza as per policy. They ask for it back, only offering you a new pizza (that you have to wait for) that is not the one you ordered. You refuse, as you have what you want. As a result, the pizza place takes all other orders you have placed for additional pizzas and stops them. They then ban you from the restaurant because they made the wrong pizza.

Does that process make sense to anyone? I find it so hard to believe that a company would do something this stupid. The real problem here more than anything, is there is no check for PSA’s behavior. PSA pizza makes the best pizza in town, nobody can compete with them so you MUST go to this pizza place. You’ve got BGS bagel pizza down the road but it’s not as good, and you won’t be as “full” at the end of your business with them.

I hope more than anything this issue gets resolved in a way that is satisfactory to all parties. But it makes me nervous to see PSA exercise this kind of power, and be unwilling to admit fault.

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How did PSA find out about the mistake?

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Oh wow! They have removed it from the database too!

Following for updates!

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I’m curious about that too. Someone might have reported it to them(a salty collector that failed to do the same) ?

Both parties are at fault here, but PSA has a very poor way of handling the situation.

It was put up on Ebay for sale, PSA must have clocked it and I believe they had it removed from ebay(Based on what I have heard in discord, voice chat from the owner of the card and other e4 members) @garyis2000 ,

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Wow, they must really really not like FPO cards…

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The card is something that PSA does not grade but was submitted in a way that they could misakenly grade it. Whether or not the customer did something wrong is up to interpretation.

If you read the PSA terms of agreement, here’s what they say:

“Customer acknowledges that PSA will not grade certain cards. PSA RESERVES THE RIGHT, AT ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, TO REJECT ANY CARD SUBMITTED BY CUSTOMER AND NOT TO GRADE SUCH CARD. No grading fee will be payable for any such cards that are submitted to PSA. Such card will not be placed in
a Holder.”

They make it clear that knowingly submitting doctored cards will get you banned from their service. They also say they will not grade counterfeit cards (obviously) but they will still charge a grading fee. From what I gather, there is no issue in submitting cards they do not grade or counterfeit cards. This makes sense because this can be done by accident and there should be no obligation on the customer to know which cards their expert team will not grade. In my own opinion, it’s their job to figure out if you submitted cards they don’t want to grade or fake cards since that is the service you are paying for.

Interestingly, I found this line in their terms of agreement (financial guarantee):

“The Guarantee shall not apply to any card as to which a typographical or clerical error has been made with respect to the description or grade of the card. Such errors shall be governed by the provisions of Section 4 below.”

Section 4 describes how you have 5 days after receiving an order to identify any issues with the cards you received (ex. mislabels)

-They claim, in their terms and services, it’s the customers job to return any card that was graded in error. I have a strange respect for companies that don’t cater to individuals that break their policy, and don’t treat them differently.

-PSA found out about the card by seeing the eBay listing. They called eBay as well and had eBay take down the listing due to it being a misreprested item. That’s why the current listing doesn’t mention PSA outside of accurate statements.

-PSA did call after the email was responded to. They essentially said return the card or be banned.

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Streisand effect in full swing here.

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I think this is the relevant part for those interested:

“Customer’s Duty to Inspect. Upon its receipt of graded cards from PSA, Customer shall inspect all items
promptly and carefully and shall notify PSA in writing within five (5) business days of any claimed discrepancies or errors in the submission received. In the event of any typographical or clerical error in the description of a card or the grade assigned to a card, Customer will return such card immediately to PSA for correction of the error at PSA’s expense. PSA’s determination as to whether there exists any error shall be final and binding.”

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