That first Dragonair is off left right as well as top to bottom, I seriously doubt it would get a 10 with both centerings being off these days. That second one is terribly shifted down and to the right, so again I doubt it would hit a 10
woah that one real nice
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See well thatâs sort of what Iâm curious about. I feel like itâs almost impossible to find Base Set Dragonair to be actually centered properly compared to other cards in the set simply due to how it was produced. Therefore, this level of centering is âgood enoughâ or as PSA would describe it as âvirtually perfectâ. So I wonder if now it would be impossible to get a 10 if this no longer meets the standard. It just seems a little unfair when a card may never actually be centered properly no matter what.
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Youâre implying that the best condition copies of a card should always be eligible for a PSA 10 regardless of factory imperfections, and I just donât think that is a reasonable expectation.
Is that that the case with jungle cards for example though where lots of the PSA 10s have silvering / horrible edges ?
The centering I believe was the only thing that made this originally a cgc 9. I didnât have many photos before being graded, but you can tell the centering isnât the greatest I believe.
Happy to see the 10 regardless, but maybe itâs just old backs are harder to grade quite possibly, or it just depends on the person grading.
Those could just be outliers. The vast majority of Jungle holos with silvering get 9s, which is why the pop is so low on so many of those cards.
As a vintage collector and first time grader trying to figure out where to send my stuff, this thread is a freaky read
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Out of curiosity, if PSA changes their centering requirements for a 10, would that not open up a lot of grade guarantee issues?
Grading has and always will be a bit of a crapshoot, regardless of company. Just go for a small order at whatever company youâre thinking about and over time your experience and preferences will sharpen. If you strongly disagree with a grade you can always crack and resub.
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We could just be going through another weird grading era like we did back when PSA was handing out alot of PSA 8.5âs. I have a batch of japanese old backs and WoTC cards at PSA now, so hopefully itâs not a blood bath.
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I hope thatâs whatâs happening but Iâve had this now on different submission over different service levels.
I kind of had the opposite experience with my most recent grading batch (TCG Bulk). Based off of my pre-grade judgement, grades tended to be harsher on the cheaper cards, and more lenient on higher end cards.
But that may also mean I tend to pre-grade higher end cards more harshly than cheap cards. 
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I had this same thing happen as well. Cracked the card and nothing wrong to be found.
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Thatâs due to bias imo.
Vintage cannot be held to the same standard as modern.
A vintage âgemâ may have some issues (eg minor print lines, silvering or centering issues) as that was almost as good as it could have been from factory.
But lower tier grades likely see so many modern cards that are insanely clean - so when they see a vintage âgemâ they give it a PSA 8.
Iâve always said that grading scales should change depending on the era.
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I would argue the contrary.
At least for japanese in my last big submission vintage was held to even higher standards than my modern cards.
Both my vintage and modern cards were in very similar conditions.
While my almost all my modern cards came back a 10.
My vintage cards for absolutely wrecked with mostly 7-9s and only a very few 10s.
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All of the cards in my submission were vintage WOTC cards, so this point doesnât really fit.
I think it comes down to my own bias in pre-grading, and maybe a bit of luck.
Iâm saying it SHOULD be like that - but sadly it isnât.
Iâm saying vintage needs more grace, and shouldnât be held to the same standard as a modern card.
When people sub vintage at lower tiers, I think graders see so many very very clean modern stuff that when vintage comes along they give 8s for a tiny print line (when back in the day when it would be given a 10 grade).
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100% this. 
I agree that vintage cards should be graded within their own cohort of cards. A SW/SH alt art should not be held to the same standard as a Neo Genesis holo in my opinion.
If there has been any meaningful change in PSAâs grading recently (which I think there has), it is probably due to the pristine modern cards being submitted en masse, skewing the average graderâs perspective of what constitutes a 10, 9, 8, etc.
Another point worth considering is PSAâs Grade Guarantee. They will be stricter with expensive cards because a misgrade will cost them $$$ and may knock their reputation if itâs publicized.
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Imo grading is grading. If a card is not a 10 it should not get a 10. If it means virtually all vintage cards are PSA 9 then thatâs what they should be. Itâs unreasonable to expect a grader to know the âgrading cohort scaleâ for every card that comes across their desk.
Where is the line drawn? Should the corners be ignored on Prerelease Clefables? Should a tobacco card from the 1800s be a PSA 10 if it is a 6 or better? Nah.
Itâs up to the collectors to figure out what grade they put value on for any given card.
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