"Junk Slab" discussion

[ashin]

@alchemyst

I guess that’s what I would ask of people. If the still want to call them junk slabs, be more descriptive of why. At the end of the day, they can do what they want. I’m also free to criticize what they do

I own junk slabs that exist purely for species collection. People’s opinion of them has no bearing on my personal enjoyment of them.

You say that you also don’t care about people’s opinion of your own collection. Good! That’s the best way to collect in my opinion.

But people also don’t have to care about your opinion on you wanting them to change their specific verbiage regarding “junk slabs”.

It goes both ways. You can’t not care about one thing, but demand others care about something else.

[wisewailmer]

@alchemyst

@HumanForScale

@alchemyst , it seems like you’re mainly taking issue with the term “junk” rather than the actual definition in the context it’s being used in. Your position here would benefit from that rather than just dismissing other’s opinions because they’re calling things “junk”.

“Junk Slabs” in the wider sense of the Pokemon hobby are cards that have little value to the general target market. For example, there isn’t much demand for a CGC 3.5 unlimited Base Set Wartortle for the general collector (which all these youtubers / influencers are catering to). There’s probably some collector who wants to collect CGC 1 to 10 Wartortles that it might have value to, but since the demand is so small and the supply is large, the card has very little value and is thus, “junk”.

You should not confuse “junk slabs” with cards that are niche. Niche cards also tend to have limited supply, which junk slabs do not. For example, you said you could consider trophy cards “junk” because there isn’t a wider market for them. That is exceedingly incorrect given the prices they fetch at auctions. There is demand, just the general target market can’t afford it. If you could buy an illustrator for $1000, you definitely would.

TL;DR: “Junk Slabs” is a lot easier to say than “Slabs that have a big supply with little demand”. Most people are just calling those slabs what they are to them, which is junk.

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

would it be the worst thing if “influencers” influenced fewer people to grade their Damaged wartortles?

[HumanForScale]

@alchemyst

@HumanForScale

@alchemyst , it seems like you’re mainly taking issue with the term “junk” rather than the actual definition in the context it’s being used in. Your position here would benefit from that rather than just dismissing other’s opinions because they’re calling things “junk”.

“Junk Slabs” in the wider sense of the Pokemon hobby are cards that have little value to the general target market. For example, there isn’t much demand for a CGC 3.5 unlimited Base Set Wartortle for the general collector (which all these youtubers / influencers are catering to). There’s probably some collector who wants to collect CGC 1 to 10 Wartortles that it might have value to, but since the demand is so small and the supply is large, the card has very little value and is thus, “junk”.

You should not confuse “junk slabs” with cards that are niche. Niche cards also tend to have limited supply, which junk slabs do not. For example, you said you could consider trophy cards “junk” because there isn’t a wider market for them. That is exceedingly incorrect given the prices they fetch at auctions. There is demand, just the general target market can’t afford it. If you could buy an illustrator for $1000, you definitely would.

TL;DR: “Junk Slabs” is a lot easier to say than “Slabs that have a big supply with little demand”. Most people are just calling those slabs what they are to them, which is junk.

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

Do you really need the receipts?

@alchemyst

@wooltchi

I think youre confusing people unable to afford or actually attempt to get trophy cards with people not desiring them.

Pretty good thought, but it’s wrong.

The irony

@alchemyst

@assassin5757

I’m thinking out loud with regards to @alchemyst comment about there being no junk slabs. I don’t want to argue for a new word because “junk slab” has a useful meaning to the market as you mentioned and it’s a good caution word that if someone wants to sell their unlimited wotc cards or ETB Charizard V they’re not leaving money on the table by selling it raw.

Whilst @alchemyst opinion is that there is no junk slab, my opinion is that there is no junk slab if it’s part of a collection. If a collector wants to finish the base set on the CGC registry (whenever it comes out) then that Wartortle is a requirement and higher grade is a higher registry score. In more extreme cases some collectors like to do the whole PSA 1 to PSA 10 of a card too. Or the simple case that someone just wants the base Wartortle because they like it.

It would be interesting if @alchemyst could futher elaborate why he is an adversary to the term. And personally I’m not a fan of the term too so that is why I brought up the conversation again. Basically I understand why the term is useful, but I don’t like the term hence my opinion.

I just don’t like the term junk slab. Are there cards that are less desirable or valuable? Sure. I have a bunch of japanese final fantasy cards that are pack fresh, ready to be graded though. Are those junk? There’s not much of a market for them.

I try to be cognizant of words I use. Especially if there are people who look up to me. It’s the same reason why I wouldn’t call my best friend a murderer, because she had an abortion.

It all boils down to influence. Those who hold influence over others, should choose their words a little more carefully.

You just seem to be concerned that people with “power” are calling slabs “junk”. Influencers only have power if you let them have it. Pay no heed to what PokeTuber#69 says about your cards.

[wittyfawn]

If everyone had the same passion for junk slabs that you do, this thread wouldn’t exist.

[Cerulean]

@alchemyst

@wooltchi

I think youre confusing people unable to afford or actually attempt to get trophy cards with people not desiring them.

Pretty good thought, but it’s wrong.

@alchemyst

@HumanForScale

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

Hmm. I would say “pretty good thought, but it’s wrong” with zero explanation as for why you think it’s “wrong” is pretty dismissive (and funny because @wooltchi was right lol).

[bitterfox]

If people would grade the junk slabs that I want that’d be great, thanks. I have no qualms with the literal term, but if people use it only to get others to not submit certain cards then therein lies the issue.

[alchemyst]

@Troy

@alchemyst

You aren’t the first to say that, and won’t be the last. Recently I sold some shoes, at market were $750, for $250 each. I made $300 in profit between the two. I think a little differently when it comes to this stuff.

So you left $1,000 on the table for what exactly?

It made me happy to give someone a deal, to help them make money. If I can help others get ahead in life, maybe they will do the same. It can become contagious.

[alchemyst]

@muk

@alchemyst

I just want people to be comfortable slabbing their cards, without others calling them junk. If all the youtubers and influential people are labeling things as junk, than more than likely fans will listen and not grade those cards. Do those fans affect me in any way? No. Neither do people who fall for pyramid schemes, but I still speak up about things I don’t agree with.

If a person has a strong sentimental bond to a certain low-value card, they will submit it regardless of what anyone calls it - but no one here would call such a sentimental card a “junk slab” anyway.

If this person’s reason for submitting a readily available, bad condition card is of financial nature, they should be glad that the term “junk slab” exists, because it might make them aware that they’re about to throw their money out of the window and hopefully think twice about it.
As an added benefit this person won’t be adding to the PSA backlog which is positive for everyone involved.

I do agree with what you’re saying. But do you think everyone else can distinguish the two?

I don’t have that same confidence in people. There are still a whole lot of people who think the US presidential election was stolen.

[cooltrainertony]

I remember coining the term junk slab

[alchemyst]

@Cerulean

@alchemyst

Pretty good thought, but it’s wrong.

@alchemyst

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

Hmm. I would say “pretty good thought, but it’s wrong” with zero explanation as for why you think it’s “wrong” is pretty dismissive (and funny because @wooltchi was right lol).

Well, they were gaslighting me. If that didn’t happen, I would’ve given more of an explanation.

But yes. I can see why that would be looked at as dismissive. You care to call out those that were dismissive of my opinion?

I apologize @wooltchi

[inertgeometry]

@brendantheclayboy

@inertgeometry

i think there is a clear divide in the junk slab discussion between people who view cards in terms of value and people who view cards as a hobby/entertainment/whatever you want to call it, but as something that isn’t mentally audited when they interact with it.

one reason i’ve struggled to get deeper in “the pokemon community” is because i cant stand the obsession over value of cards. luckily i’ve found nooks and crannies with others who don’t make it their focal point, but this whole junk slab debate encapsulates that dominating sector of collectors who *seem* to care more about how much their collection is worth than the simple fact that they have the collection.

It’s not that most are viewing in terms of value, but rather acknowledging. I for example can easily call my Slowpoke fossil unlimited 9 a junk slab, and I don’t see my cards as dollar signs or value or anything. I distinguish between how I view them (love, interest, passion, what have you), and a more objective world view of them. It’s like semantics over the actual definition of something versus how you associate a word or what a word means to you. All that junk slab means is a value term. It isn’t an insult to a card, but as described above, a description for the fact that said card holds no monetary value when adding the slab. That’s the only reason for the term. It’s the slab, not the card.

Almost all of the discussers involved here collect worthless slabs and love them equally or nearly equal to their other slabs. There are few who really constitute a divide here on E4. I don’t audit my slabs at all, but it is acknowledged at some point, or occasionally at least. That is a fact of life that what you earned gets due consideration for what was done to earn it. Whether it be your labor, your creativity, or your dollars spent.

I just want to stand up for the fact that most serious, passionate collectors in this particular discussion defending the inoffensive term don’t care as much about the value of their collection as they do having the cards. After all, most who are talking here (including me), have been collecting now-expensive slabs and once junk slabs since before they were worth a damn, and continue to buy monetarily worthless slabs, yet say that they do acknowledge that there are junk slabs.

oh for sure, i’m not here to get into the semantics. i think the term is dumb, but i understand people need to use words to describe things, even if the accuracy of those words poorly articulate the thing.

i’m also not saying everyone here just cares about how much money a card is worth. i’m saying this discussion and the arguments around it make it *seem* like the majority only care about the money/market.

the entire argument seems to be that the term makes sense when assessing the monetary value of the slab while others focus on the broader net of “value”.

i have my own issues with finances and that is a personal thing of course. i’m just here to add an anecdote that this particular individual (me) cannot stand conversations focused around the value of the cards and find more enjoyment around the nuances of the cards themselves like their mechanics in the TCG, the illustrations, the set they came from/way they were released, the rarity, etc…

in retrospect, i shouldn’t have said anything because i’m not adding to the conversation besides saying “hey, people like me exist”, as if that affects anything here.

[alchemyst]

@HumanForScale

@alchemyst

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

Do you really need the receipts?

@alchemyst

Pretty good thought, but it’s wrong.

The irony

@alchemyst

I just don’t like the term junk slab. Are there cards that are less desirable or valuable? Sure. I have a bunch of japanese final fantasy cards that are pack fresh, ready to be graded though. Are those junk? There’s not much of a market for them.

I try to be cognizant of words I use. Especially if there are people who look up to me. It’s the same reason why I wouldn’t call my best friend a murderer, because she had an abortion.

It all boils down to influence. Those who hold influence over others, should choose their words a little more carefully.

You just seem to be concerned that people with “power” are calling slabs “junk”. Influencers only have power if you let them have it. Pay no heed to what PokeTuber#69 says about your cards.

I saw Cerulean’s comment about being dismissive first, so I responded to them, but I’ll reiterate. I got gaslit, and gave a short response. I did apologize.

As for being influenced. It’s not me that is influenced in this case. I’m thinking about others who are more susceptible. Do you think people aren’t being influenced on stuff like this?

Also, just because I can afford a $1000 card, doesn’t mean I will want or even buy it. Not every one desires the same thing.

[inertgeometry]

@smpratte

@inertgeometry

i think there is a clear divide in the junk slab discussion between people who view cards in terms of value and people who view cards as a hobby/entertainment/whatever you want to call it, but as something that isn’t mentally audited when they interact with it.

one reason i’ve struggled to get deeper in “the pokemon community” is because i cant stand the obsession over value of cards. luckily i’ve found nooks and crannies with others who don’t make it their focal point, but this whole junk slab debate encapsulates that dominating sector of collectors who *seem* to care more about how much their collection is worth than the simple fact that they have the collection.

People aren’t obsessed with valuable cards, they just want them, and there aren’t enough to go around. Therefore those particular cards naturally earn higher price tags and warrant more discussion.

“junk slabs” is just a slang term to describe graded cards that people, including yourself, don’t want. Here is an image of cards that ended with 0 bids at $0:

Feel free to use whatever term to describe those cards. It won’t change the fact that no one currently wants them. It isn’t some grand conspiracy, its just there are cards that have no added value or demand being graded.

this is why i said all slabs are junk slabs. i dont want any of them lol

[mrtz]

@alchemyst

@kpod

What are you hoping to gain by not having some lower graded, readily available cards labeled as junk slabs?

I just want people to be comfortable slabbing their cards, without others calling them junk. If all the youtubers and influential people are labeling things as junk, than more than likely fans will listen and not grade those cards. Do those fans affect me in any way? No. Neither do people who fall for pyramid schemes, but I still speak up about things I don’t agree with.

As someone who has a lot of younger family who are fans of all the poketubers, they dont care about influencers calling cards junk - they dont listen to them and theyve grade their favorite cards regardless

[zorloth]

@alchemyst , I think something should be clarified here: when people use the term “junk slab,” they’re referring to the market saturation of undesirable slabs. This saturation is the result of cards that were graded by flippers to make a quick buck. Anyone grading an undesirable card for personal, sentimental reasons has zero impact on this equation. No one is using the term “junk slab” to refer to peoples’ sentimental cards that they wanted slabbed for personal reasons.

[alchemyst]

@wisewailmer

@alchemyst

I actually haven’t been dismissive of other’s opinions though. I’ve already said that I agree there are cards that have less monetary value. I just didn’t agree on using the term junk for them. Especially coming from those that hold influence over others in the community

would it be the worst thing if “influencers” influenced fewer people to grade their Damaged wartortles?

I guess it just depends on what is said. If it’s along the lines of “these cards aren’t worth anything monetarily right now. If you’re trying to make money right away, it’s not really worth it to grade. But do what works for whatever you intend to do with the card.”

Something along those lines.

I personally have 100 cards that have been at psa for over a year. I don’t mind if people send in their damaged cards that aren’t worth much

[alchemyst]

@zorloth

@alchemyst , I think something should be clarified here: when people use the term “junk slab,” they’re referring to the market saturation of undesirable slabs. This saturation is the result of cards that were graded by flippers to make a quick buck. Anyone grading an undesirable card for personal, sentimental reasons has zero impact on this equation. No one is using the term “junk slab” to refer to peoples’ sentimental cards that they wanted slabbed for personal reasons.

I can see that. The 3.5 wartortle on ebay is a junk slab. The 3.5 wartortle in someone’s collection isnt?

[alchemyst]

@ashin

@alchemyst

I guess that’s what I would ask of people. If the still want to call them junk slabs, be more descriptive of why. At the end of the day, they can do what they want. I’m also free to criticize what they do

I own junk slabs that exist purely for species collection. People’s opinion of them has no bearing on my personal enjoyment of them.

You say that you also don’t care about people’s opinion of your own collection. Good! That’s the best way to collect in my opinion.

But people also don’t have to care about your opinion on you wanting them to change their specific verbiage regarding “junk slabs”.

It goes both ways. You can’t not care about one thing, but demand others care about something else.

I agree, people don’t have to change their verbiage, just because I want them to. I also want people to stop saying union jobs drive up costs of goods and services. Yet, it’s still said 100 years later

[pizzachu]

Nevermind I posted saying this should be in unpopular opinion, but it was moved here by moderation because of heavy discussion not to flood that thread. Sorry didn’t notice that.

[lamplamp]

After reading through the thread, I wanted to add a point that I feel hasn’t been touched on: the junk slab influx to PSA was so bad (for all types of cards) that their turnaround time is still over a year for the lower tiers. From a business perspective, that is absolutely insane. Customers aren’t happy, PSA employees probably aren’t happy, and PSA has to spend tremendous amounts of capital scaling their business for demand that may or may not materialize in the long run.

All of those factors meant that anyone wanting to submit cards to PSA has to either pay prohibitive prices for cards that are going into their personal collection or only submit cards for resale that are worth paying those prices. Effectively, Timmy submitting his shoebox of beat up Base 2 commons hoping to flip on eBay has clogged the system for everyone else. So when those cards come back with a flat or negative expected value and get posted for sale, the rest of us see wasted time and capacity that could have been spent on grading cards for our own personal enjoyment