First of all, what you accept is very inconsistent. You are arguing on the grounds of legality, but then keep making exceptions. You can’t simultaneously accept extended art cards that are sold for profit, but not accept luxury cards that are sold for profit.
But the second part of your response is what bothers me most. You personally don’t think placeholder cards fit within a collection, but that is not your call to make for others. I don’t know if you legitimately don’t understand the difference between a doodle and a replica in terms of appeal or if you are being intentionally obtuse. What ever motivations someone has for putting a fake card in their collection is entirely their own decision. You could make a hundred other arguments against counterfeit cards, but this is not a good one.
Um, not sure what you mean by that. What a weird thing to say lol
People that think capitalism is profiting off other labor have a very weird view of capitalism and have no clue what other systems are. The idea that someone chooses to work for compensation is using their labor for profit ignores the monarchy system, a socialist system, and litterally every system ever conceived. In fact capitalism is the only system that allows for someone to completely work for themselves without being born into a power position or revolt/exploit the system to get to that position.
We don’t have to get political, I just know where you’re coming from when you make that comment.
I’m sorry, but did you just come into here accusing me of having a one sided opinion of capitalism and then immediately demonstrate that you have a one sided opinion of capitalism?
But yeah, I guess we probably shouldn’t get political otherwise I’m sure this thread will get locked. I can tell this one will get heated lol No hard feelings!
I’m aware of the negatives. I find that a lot of the negatives that people mention aren’t actually about capitalism, but I’m aware of the criticism. I’m not going to paint a fair picture when your first comment is a left leaning position. Believe it or not, I’m very center on my opinions. It seems like I’m right to people because so many people aren’t centered and I have to take a right position so both sides of the debate can be made.
As a stated, it’s my views. If you or anyone else is bothered by that, that’s not gonna change a thing for me. My acceptance for painted extended arts is based on the fact that you’re paying the artist for a painting, it just so happens to be on top of a card. You pay for what they paint around the pokemon lol.
For any other custom with unique art i specifically mention that they’re also not legal, though i’m more lenient with them as they don’t try to imitate existing cards and in no way can be mistaken for a real card.
What I mentioned before is my views on the matter and no amount of people thinking I’m “obtuse” for stating my opinions will change them. I have my reasons to stand by my “no fakes/customs” policy for my collection and stand by them. I don’t expect anyone else to adjust to my views, simply sharing them.
What people do with their collection is their business, and what I do with mine is my business. I just find it pointless to spend money on a fake card to fill a place for a card you’ll never own.
Again, there’s other ways to appreciate a card’s artwork that don’t involve funding bootleggers.
@stephneechan, You can have your opinion, I just think it’s a bit inconsistent to form your opinion around IP laws. You might as well leave them out of it if you’re willing to make exceptions for breaking them.
And I don’t care if you think it’s pointless to include fake cards in your collection, but you are using your own personal criteria for your collection as an argument for why other people shouldn’t have fake cards in their collection. Just say you don’t like fake cards in circulation or something. It’s much easier to argue that.
@cullers, I mean, everyone can clearly tell I’m more than willing to talk about anything based on how much I argue, so it’s really up to you lol
I’m not so much making exceptions since i still don’t buy the unique art ones either lol. I just judge them less harshly than fakes that try to imitate real and valuable cards.
As for the rest, I said what I meant and I meant what I said. I wasn’t trying to argue anything. Just stating my views on it.
Problem is some cards are rare by their distribution, so it’s literally supply and demand, driven by market forces. There’s not much we can do about that unfortunately. I do agree on your stance with hoarding rarer cards; I try to keep only 1 copy of each rare card, but some people have the enjoyment of having multiple copies of the card…that’s just an unfortunate reality. I guess it depends on which cards you’re talking about…like if it’s the illustrator or trophy cards…Pokemon straight are unable to print any more of those because it defeats the purpose. However, if you mean like base set charizard, technically it has been reprinted in various cheaper forms that makes the card affordable. Playability wise, Pokemon is quite an affordable hobby.
In my opinion, I honestly don’t think too much criticism is aimed at the people who wants to access replicas; during the boom of counterfeits a few years back, the community worked hard on trying to crack down counterfeiters, bootleggers and a lot of time and energy was used to report people promoting the production of fake counterfeit cards (especially the ones in fake PSA cases).
As a Pokemon community however, I personally do not think it’s a good idea to encourage it. It removes credibility from the forums. If you swap the pokemon community to collecting hand bags, the Hermes Birken bags are constantly 5 figure handbags that are low in supply and extremely high in demand. Some people who have the money still have to wait years to get their hands on the bags. Now if you were missing one of the bags and bought a counterfeit for your collection, I mean technically it’s not harming anyone if you just keep it to yourself. However, if you publicly disclose this to a Hermes collecting forum, as much as they may have sympathy for you knowing how hard it is to grab that bag, they cannot encourage nor celebrate the fact that you got one either.
I have sympathy and empathy for the people who cannot afford the expensive cards, because I am in the same camp and am unable to drop thousands of dollars into the hobby. However, logically speaking, the cheaper, logical alternative is still not to buy custom cards but to buy other cards that fit your budget. A few years ago, it was possible for me to spend my 100$ budget on a “custom” fake card like an fake base set 1st charizard for example. However, if you used that money and bought for example some holo evolutions charizards for like 5-7$, you would have maybe 800$ worth of cards by now. If you were super lucky and spent that 100$ on a PSA 9 Neo Genesis Typhlosion, you would have $2500 and can swap your card for a low grade base set 1st charizard. However, if you spent that 100$ on fake cards, you literally have 0$ worth of cards right now (or 100$ I suppose, depending on how you look at it). That’s why the logical point of view is still to buy cheap but legitimate alternatives.
All very good points. I should have been more clear on the distinction between low pop cards and chase cards.
Not encouraging buying replicas is probably a good thing, but again, I just don’t really see much of a way around the fact that the demand for rare cards creates a counterfeit market. Cheap legitimate alternatives may work for some people and maybe not for others. I guess it comes down to their preference.
In any case, I know it’s frowned upon in the community. I just have a bit of a neutral stance on it.
Creating a fake card by itself is not “forgery.” In most states, the crime of forgery requires the “intent to deceive.” The mental status of the individual is an element of the crime that must be proven to be convicted.
If the creator does not intend to deceive anyone with the creation of the card, it’s not illegal.
So the people that are creating and selling fake/proxy/replica cards online AND advertise them being fake/proxy/replica are not committing the crime of forgery as they are not intending to deceive anyone.
That may be true, but the people selling them on eBay are breaching eBay’s terms of use. I report any “proxy”, “flash” or “replica” card I see on eBay and they’re almost always taken down.
Are they really? That’s great. On .de I have never, ever seen any of those listings taken down when I reported them (I only report the cards that clearly imitate real ones, fake boosters etc.). Especially with the official businesses that do nothing but sell proxy cards. Maybe they only act with a certain quantity of reports.
Bear poking aside, that’s not true at all. The intent to deceive is self evident in the creation of the replica product. Proof of mental status is not a requirement for conviction, it just furthers the likelihood of conviction. If what you’re saying were true I could make and sell a fake version of anything I wanted tomorrow. Simply not the case.
Edit: I just realized you’re specifying criminal “forgery”. I see your point, but it’s still illegal Forgery doesn’t really apply to Pokemon cards as it’s more to do with writings/signatures/legal documents.
I rather buy a ripped through the middle and glued back together with tape Snap Bulbasaur for $2000 than I buy a replica for $10 to fill that empty spot in my binder.
Yeah but the main issue is the copyright infringement. And almost literally ANY use of copyrighted material is an infringement. To the point where even making your own cosplay and wearing this to a convention is technically a copyright infringement. In a lot of cases fanart and cosplay is usually condoned (though in the case of fanart sometimes a bit begrudgingly) since people making merch with their fanart usually do this on a very small scale and are usually not in direct competion with an official merch item, making prosecuting not worth it.
And in the case of japanese franchises, a lot of companies basically just allow it to happen since they see it as extra advertising for their characters and show/game. They’ll usually only crack down if it’s something that grossly misrepresents the IP or could have negative effects on the perception of the IP.
Asides from that side tangent, making a copy of an existing card and selling it is absolutely copyright infringement. Not to mention that customs won’t be happy if you import fakes too. (i’ve ordered fake cards before from wish to make an informative video about and laugh at how bad they are, don’t worry didn’t end up costing me anything XD) and it got seized by customs and destroyed for being counterfeit goods. So there’s that too.
ANY use of copyrighted characters that you did not get the IP’s owners permission for, is in itself technically a copyright infringement. Now if you just print a card to play with at home this isn’t an issue. If you start SELLING said cards however that’s a different matter. Both the character and the art itself are protected by copyright.
Also keep in mind, this is NINTENDO, they’re notoriously anal about this kind of stuff lol. Now they might not care about some low life printing 5 fake cards in his basement, but they have taken down bigger fan created things before, even those without ill intentions. (Like pokemon Uranium, though download links for it can still be found).
Fact just plain and simple is: making copies of cards is illegal, wether you like fake cards or not. But then again at the same time something being illegal doesn’t stop people here from tax fraud either so there’s that XD
Forgery doesn’t really apply to Pokemon cards as it’s more to do with writings/signatures/legal documents.