Fake Signed Cards Thread - Even PSA aut! Be careful

Hi,
we already discussed about this in the page 3 of this thread, (thanks to @thitaniumprince , you all should read his comment).
We didn’t have so far an official thread where we can show all the fake signed cards that are floating the market, and tell HOW to recognize them.

These are my personal advices:

  • Buy signed cards from reliable sources only, dont buy from random YA or Ebay listings. Ask for pics of the artist signing the card, smart people usually make videos as well, that are great as prooves!
  • DON’T TRUST PSA! … We didnt find any fake signed and authenticated by BGS, so I would suggest to use BGS for your signed cards.
  • There are thousand of Arita signatures and because of this big number it is really hard to track down Arita fake signed cards. His signature is even easier to fake… be careful guys.

Apparently, Sugimori’s signatures are the most faked ones:

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Good to know. Praise E4! I was thinking of buying some autographed stuff recently, luckily this came up at just the right time.

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wow, this is not good. I have seen a bunch of fakes on the bay. I compare to smprattes listings and other reputable sellers and it’s clear some of the fakes. The more you look at something the more you can begin to see differences that make you question the authenticity. Thanks for posting.

-Matthew

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Autopens are no joke. They can even make an appearance in the well established sports market.

www.beckett.com/news/dak-prescott-autographs-recalled-by-panini/

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At least they will own up to it.

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They pay the players pennies to sign them, so I dont even blame them…

Autographs have got to be the dumbest things out there to put tons of values on. So much corruption and fakes out there. Signatures are never the exact same. I can’t think of a market more fraught with fakes and frauds. Also there are tons of stories where people who have gotten signatures in person only for them to be deemed not authentic and obviously the reverse happens as well where some fakes get through.

If you get someone to sign something for you in person then enjoy it and value it for the experience and memories. Don’t pay extra for inked up (damaged) cards that someone paid to have signed in bulk.

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This is an extremely cynical view of autographs. There are plenty of qualified experts who can properly authenticate specific signers. The trouble is usually with the understudied/newer signers.

Also, it isn’t feasible to do signings in person. There are entire countries, hell continents that these people will never do signings. Therefore buying one on the second hand market is the only viable option for most people.

This autopen example is an argument from exception. Pokemon forgeries are easily combated, it is simply a matter if PSA wants to pay for that level of expertise. Currently, items are very easy to source, as autographs are extremely young. For example, this individual doing these autopens is the same person making the Fake Staff Charizards. Therefore the combination of third party authentication + seller reputation is the safest option in any hobby.

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@smpratte should my view still be called extremely cynical though if it is correct? I’d call it more realistic rather than cynical or pessimistic.

Industry experts will even admit to the fact that the autograph market is one of the markets most saturated with fraud and forgeries. They actually count on that to sell their authentication services which time and time again have been factually proven to be quite inconsistent and error prone.

We argue of the inconsistencies with PSA on this forum between the grades of 8/9/10 which are so much more up for opinion and are in their nature subjective. So it isn’t so much an error but a difference of opinion. But when you have a literal pass/fail objective diagnosis for whether or not a signature is real it just makes it so much more important for them to be correct which they too are often not both failing real signatures and passing fake ones. And sure, the cases of real in-person signatures being deemed inauthentic are nearly entirely anecdotal but there sure are a LOT of anecdotes about it if one is to do some searching.

This part was all my opinion though obviously. Except for the inked up (damaged) part as the card is literally inked and damaged no longer in the mint state that it was produced in at the factory… there is no way around that.

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It would be nice to see Psa doing the same

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@gottaketchumall Yes. Cynicism is seeing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Majority of people cannot attend signings. Buying a signed item is their only option. It’s overreaching to say something is stupid when people enjoy the legitimate historical value.

Sure autographs have more fraud attempts in sports. Anything big enough invites cockroaches. While we type in this discussion, there are numerous fake pokemon cards on ebay. More specifically, what is the current ratio of fake pokemon signatures to fake cards? It is not even close. Moreover, this is the first instance of PSA screwing up with an auto (they need to rectify). Which is why this is an argument from exception.

In general the fraudulent aspect is overblown and out of context. UDA Only does in person signings. Anyone versed in autos knows which businesses have in person signings as well. Point being, the source is relevant to autos. Just like with fake cards, you are never going to worry about me, you, Gary, Rusty, etc. selling fake garbage because there are loads of fakes on ebay.

People are stupid and the fact that someone would disrespect an artist like that, makes me sick but welcome to reality. Thanks for the tips unlimited!

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Out of curiosity, how does a third party company authenticate a signature? How are they able to tell apart an original from a fake?
It feels like it is extremely easy to fake an autograph if you have an original and enough practice…

They have a few videos on the technology they use for their authentication process. As with anything in hobbies and life in general, it all boils down to knowledge: the aesthetics’s of the signature itself, type of ink and consistency of the signature, timeframe of the signers activity.

They call it an “art”.

It is quite subjective and inherently error prone. There are videos out there of experts being faked. If someone can become expert enough to authenticate, it is easy to understand that some can become expert enough to fake. Upper Deck sold a Lindbergh signature with a piece of his hair that was both JSA and PSA verified authentic only later for it to be deemed faked when another 3rd party Lindbergh expert called it out. The errors are not one off and I’m sure loads aren’t caught because all you need to do is fool PSA then most will agree with it.

Faking a card is like faking money. It requires proper raw materials that your average joe can’t buy at Wal-Mart, the proper equipment to make the right cut, the proper printer for proper ink patterns, proper foil. They then need to be able to print and match that card to a quite repeatable process whereby someone can compare to a real one 1:1 and look for flaws.

Faking a signature only requires a black sharpie; the same black sharpie everyone has and then also some practice. You don’t need to match anything exactly as no two signatures are exact. There are usually a few key points that need to be matched and given the financial incentive involved in some cases as @smpratte mentioned there are no shortages of people trying their hand at faking them.

I wasn’t aware though that the in person signing verification existed. I guess if you had one you bought that was certified and signed in person it could make you feel better about it. I still just don’t get it myself and don’t think I ever will. To each his own, but for anyone looking to spend money on an inked card at least do your best to be sure it was destroyed by the proper person I guess. Even if UD, PSA, JSA all back it, it may not be the case.

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Another fake Ken Sugimori signature was listed on Yahoo today

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t628339229

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That pika is rough haha

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PSA noobs

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A reminder to everyone to please be careful:

www.etsy.com/market/ken_sugimori

Autopens or prints (the DSi example) on fake cards…

:slightly_frowning_face:

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What is funny is that the Victini/pikachu colored sketch from which the auto is copied is actually a fake sketch.

It’s part of a huge lot of art that was faked by a Spanish con man who called himself “Juan” and claimed he worked for a company that invited artists to events in Spain. He sold those fakes for years on eBay.

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