extremely rare 1st edition T17 & Lugia PSA 9. 10 regrade???

In all seriousness, soon I’m planning to send my first pokemon card submission to PSA. These are, in my opinion, very strong 9s. particularly the lugia. given the pricing disparity between 9s and 10s on these cards, would you crack and attempt to resubmit them? I’m ok with the risk to the cards. I have the removal process down to a science and am not worried about damaging the cards. So let’s take that off the table. I have an idea as to what I plan to do but I am really curious to hear from others.

First card is a T17. In hand, the front looks great except the left to right centering. in the holo there are two light scratches and two factory print lines. they are much harder hard to see than what shows in these pictures. I had to get the lighting right and take a number of pictures for them to show up. the back is clean. zero corner whitening and perfect lower, left and right edges. there is a very tiny white mark on the top edge, also not easily visible. the other white specks are not on the card but showed up on the case when I took the picture. the brown speck in the pokemon letters on the back is also not on the card.

next, the lugia. the front and back centering look solid to me, slightly off top to bottom and left to right but within the parameters of a 10. the back is literally pristine. perfect, flawless corners and edges. the holo has no scratches, but two factory print lines. a dull one that runs under the head of lugia to the bottom of the holo and another that runs left to right in the middle of the holo area. I’m a former vintage magic collector so not really used to holos and how consistent PSA is with respect them. To me, those are really the only two flaws on the card. the little white specks in the picture of the back showed up on the case when I took the picture, they are not on the card.

PSA veterans, please weigh in! also, for fun let’s play another game. guess the certs. Are these 2xxx or 4xxx certs?

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Really hard to tell from pictures, would have to see them in person. I think you have a chance, how good or bad that chance is I don’t know. How lucky are you feeling :wink:

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A lot of stuff going on in the holos it seems like. I wouldn’t like these as 10’s and maybe not even as 9’s.


Well you could regrade 10 times and get lucky. There are certainly 10s with similar faint print lines. But the reason pop is so low is not due to centering or corners, it is mainly because of print lines being rampant in Neo Genesis holos. FWIW I had a flawless Slowking with print line similar to Typhlosion which also received a 9.

Edit – just zoomed in on Typhlosion. Would not bother with that one.


Centering on the front of T17 is just too off to land a 10 these days. Lugia overall looks better but those print lines, especially more than 1, really limit it.

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And if you can’t be with the one you love, honey.
Love the one you’re with.


Thanks for the replies. Really helpful so far. I was also thinking not worth it on the Typhlosion but it’s helpful to hear others views. The lugia I’m still debating. Will probably leave it alone too. The 10 on ebay looks like it has a pristine holo.

Wasn’t sure if PSA takes print defects known to be part of the set into account like they seem to do (inconsistently) with something like silvering on jungle cards.

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Unless you can not find a single flaw, I wouldn’t crack them. The Typhlosions centering immediately disqualifies it from the 10 grade. Lugia looks good… but we can only see so much via photos. A lot of flaws can be caught by observing the light play over the card surface. Good luck and keeps us updated on which course of action you take.

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As someone who owns two each of these cards in 9s, those are lovely nines for sure.

Id personally keep them to enjoy and wouldnt bother with regrading, but if youd like to take your chances thats up to you.


I’d feel more comfortable owning these as beautiful 9s than weak 10s. Lovely pieces to have man.


Thx. Also, the certs… drumroll.

The Typhlosion is a 4xxx cert and Lugia is a 2xxx cert

What does that imply? Absolutely nothing. Buy the card :grin:


I’d be very disappointed with PSA if they gave a 10 to a card with 3 noteworthy imperfections (the T17). Beautiful cards either way! I reckon that if you were ever to sell the Lugia it would probably go for a premium, as long as you provide good photos. It’s definitely in slightly better condition than my PSA 9 copy.

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The T17 is a clear 9 due to the holo. The lugia may have a chance but again the print line is too harsh/obvious for it to get a 10 imo.

After reflecting on the forum feedback and sleeping on it, I have officially decided to keep both cards in their cases. The T17 is a “solid 9” that looks great in hand. The Lugia is truly a much tougher call as the only flaws on the card are those faint tiny print lines. From almost every angle the card looks flawless. If there was a 9.5 PSA grade that’s where I would put it. And no I do not have plans to cross it to beckett. If I watch ebay and the forum for years and most PSA 10 Lugias I see also have those print lines, I’ll either change my mind about cracking it or have inner peace knowing there’s not much better available. The PSA 10 Lugia on ebay is mocking me though. That is one pretty 10.


how much is a psa 10 lugia today anwyay?

I offered a hefty sum and received no counter. Have no idea what it would sell for if a PSA 10 was auctioned. But I would estimate that it would take an amount greater than $10k to get the ebay seller to even provide a counter-offer at this time.

That Lugia in particular looks pretty solid.

The Typhlosion on the other hand, looks like there’s quite a bit going on in the holo section of the card. That would probably have about as much chance to come back as an 8, as it would a 10.


I wouldn’t be surprised if that eBay Lugia had a similar holo situation as your 9 it is too easy to hide those sort of print lines!

Can’t hurt either way since they’re so strong. I have a PSA 10 Lugia and the back is not as clean as yours. I will try send a picture when I get home as I haven’t checked it out for awhile.

I am kind of aggressive with grading, so I am think to trash $50-$100 for a re-grade is worth the risk. Just me personal opinion :grin:

That Lugia is crispy though! I am sending in another next week so hopefully she comes back a 9-10.