The max condition Shadowless charizord downturn in the last 2 weeks huh 
All I will say is that if a BGS Pristine charizord sold less than a PSA 10 a few weeks apart, a huge swath of people would be melting down right now.
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100% anybody would still be thrilled to get a 10 from any company id imagine. plus this was a 10 with one 9.5 sub maybe if it was their quad 10 whatever they call it we would see a premium above psa 10. Because if it has 1 small defect then a 10 may as well just be a psa 10 because those often have just 1 defect too. Idk i didnt study the card too close or anything
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BGS fans are a different breed though
I use BGS a lot. Probably more than most people but im under no illusions that they know whats going on. BGS is not my father, idc if people rag on them. They usually deserve it
the ones who will die for their company you gotta stay away from
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$3000 down over the last two weeks means nothing at these prices. In general cards are trending down thatās what I was trying to say there. Yes a bgs 10 wouldāve been a disaster at that price. This was a company that was nowhere I think itās done pretty well thatās all Iām saying. My sub at psa is almost done and my next sub is going there aswell. I think cgc are good at grading so I have some confidence in them thatās it.
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I mean people be acting like itās a disaster when it literally sold for 63k for a company that only started grading pokemon cards for 2 years lol. Plus there wasnāt any sales data prior and cgc 10s are extremely rare for vintage cards thus hard for people to gauge its cost. You have to give CGC more time for its market to develop especially for vintage cards. For modern cards CGC 10 are usually more valuable than a PSA 10. 3000 dollars down is literally just variance lol.
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The grading standards definitely changed. My old cert 9.5s are incredibly mint (with not even a single exception that I can recall offhand). At that point, CGC 9.5s were much more difficult to get than PSA 10s (referring specifically to 2003-04 era holos/exs).
Whereas my new cert 9.5s are a mixed bag. On average, theyāre lower quality than PSA 10s (although thereās a lot of overlap, obviously). With new cert CGC 10s, they seem to be comparable to PSA 10s and old cert CGC 9.5s.
I have a ton of old cert 9.5s that Iām still contemplating if I want to regrade. Theyāre in my sets, so the higher value wouldnāt mean much to me if they āupgradedā to 10s. But at the same time, Iād probably prefer the case to say 10 lol. And Iād be very curious to see how it would turn out.
Also, the sale price on that Charizard is actually higher than I wouldāve expected. Itās a myth that CGC 10s are worth significantly more than PSA 10s (for pre-2007 English holos, at least). I donāt think I paid above PSA 10 price for any of my CGC 10s. Hell, in some instances I paid significantly less ā like I sold my Raikou ex 10 for $1100-ish and won my CGC 10 for $850-ish lol.
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Itās not just variance. CGC 10 vintage holos routinely sell for less than PSA 10s. There was a HA block not too long ago with a ton of vintage holo 10s and most of them ended under PSA 10 prices (sometimes significantly under). A lot of people try to get above PSA 10 prices for CGC 10s ā that much is true. But actual auction sales tell a different story.
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I mean the auction sale was literally just 3k difference. That isnāt even a 5 % difference in terms of cost. That to me is literally just variance. And in the end Charizard is what moves this hobby. This was the first ever CGC 10 high end vintage holo charizard I can recall being sold in auction. So a lot of the vintage 10 holos in CGC my guess in the future will follow suit because of this auction.
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CGC shot themselves in the foot making the Pristine 10 easier and the Perfect 10 visually identical label.
I would put a slight premium on CGC 10 because I prefer the case for my collection, but the days of CGC Pristine 10s getting huge premium over PSA are definitely over. This is coming from someone who spent 3x PSA 10 price on these two cards a year ago. I would never do that for a new label 10. Iāve been buying old label 9.5s as they are excellent price with solid PSA 10 cross chances.
One advantage of CGC 10 is I donāt need to look at the back of the card. I know with that grade itāll be a genuinely mint card. With PSA 10s you still have to look at the PWCC photos in detail.
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The days have been over for quite a while! For example, I won these back in November of last year:
At that time, the PSA 10s of those were worth $800ish and $500ish, respectively. I mean ā look at my max bids! My max bid on the Ampharos was $840 and I won it for $492, and $600 on Jirachi and I won it for $384 lol. And there were plenty of others I won at āonlyā slightly under PSA 10 prices. CGC 10s have performed terribly via auction for as long as theyāve been sold at auction. That HA block back in November was pretty much the first time that CGC 10 vintage holos even publicly surfaced.
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I mean you canāt just use 2 personal data points and say just cause that occurred it means itās true. By your logic the most recent sales CGC 10 shadowless and PSA 10 shadowless disproves your point. Iām just saying you have to give CGC more time to develop. Itās been 2 years and you are comparing it harshly to PSA which is the gold standard.
Iām not just using two data points ā you can look at the entire block. The trend was universal. Those were just the two I won for >20% below PSA 10 prices; I won plenty of others for 10%-15% below PSA 10 prices.
And Iām not hating on CGC ā 90% of my collection is CGC haha. Iām a fan of the product and actively hope that they do well. But the fact is that CGC just generally doesnāt do very well via auction.
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Well the most recent sale of the CGC 10 shadowless charizard and the PSA 10 shadowless charizard basically had no difference in cost. And like I said charizard is what moves this hobby in the end. Will be interesting to see the ripple effects of this most recent sale on the future of CGC compared to PSA.
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Thatās exactly the situation nice one for writing it all out. I think it was a great result congrats @gemmintpokemon.
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I like this dude. and I agree with DidGen.
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Its spot on but we are the minority in thinking this way.
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Agreed.
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The problem is PSA 10 =/= CGC 10. This point was made before the sale.
Itās supposed to be a premium product thatās better than gem mint but it didnāt perform that way. I donāt know why this is a controversial opinion. CGCās trading card division is almost 3 years old and has been around for probably 90+% of all Pokemon cards ever graded. For almost a year of that time they were the only realistic option when it came to grading
Ultimate the takeaway for me is I can take the āeasyā 10 option with PSA and make the same or more than the āhardā 10 with CGC. I think that if we as a hobby actually care about condition, this is not the way it should be but it is the reality we find ourselves in.
And again, the guy made a yearly salary on one card so congrats on that, Zack
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I think Iām going to have to use longer explanations itās just a lot of work doing big messages but shorter sentences arenāt conveying the nuances. I do value cgc 10 as a higher grade than a psa 10. The market currently does not no big surprise there. The direction of travel is what Iām watching. Little bit by little bit the gaps are closing and the fact cgc grades a lot less than psa makes it pretty incredible. Each higher end card that sells well solidifies confidence. 3 years vs psa and bgs and holding their own and excelling in some areas is a massive feat. Having to beat psa highest prices and bgs black label prices isnāt realistic for any company in that time period.
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Why grade with CGC then if they are harsher graders and donāt earn the premium? Serious question here. Even if youāre international, the process is the same between the big 3 grading companies, so you canāt use ease of access as the reasoning any longer. I think people deep down have this angst against PSA and want to subtly give them the finger by grading with any company not named PSA, hoping some company can overtake them, but in the long run youāre just hurting yourself financially.
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