I not going to read into it too much personally. Hard to know what he meant as there’s a lot of stories of like crimes being solved on 4chan and stuff like that. Either way, it’s not worth the brain space. No one outside of e4 is dissecting the sentence to the degree that it’s happening here.
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Reading this thread has confirmed for me I’m not spending my time watching this. No real new info, unnecessary drama-rama, pass.
Unpopular opinion but this type of thing seems to cement for me that the hobby “growing” is not necessarily a good thing.
The base assumption of the hobby growing being a good thing is that more people can enjoy what many have enjoyed for years. Somewhere along the way, what collecting was 10 years ago has been perverted into whatever is going on now. I don’t think what we’ve got now being exposed to more and more people is a good thing.
I’m tired boss.
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It is just so far from reality. I have introduced a few friends to this forum and all were literally schocked how warm they were welcomed and people willing to help answer mundane questions. Something almost nonexistant on the internet nowadays. Even reddit with its so called liberal leftist angle is just a cesspit of negativity, 4chan is the opposite polar of that reddit cesspit.
On e4 majority is simply sane, not mentally ill like on those places
Maybe the joke was e4, 4chan, both contain 4s or i really don’t know
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I’m guessing they saw the dude with the luchador pikachu pfp and just went “yep, 4chan.” Did seem like a bit of a jump when 4chan’s whole thing is anonymity and lack of accountability for blatant shitposting and worse.
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I wanted a 8 for quite some time of the glossy 96 and of course my timing could not be worse. For example I watched two newer cert 7s end tonight 30 minutes a part ebay/goldin. First one 13.2 second 9k+. I’ve had to resort to accepting I can maybe pick up a 6 but after tonight, not as hot on the idea of even that. Seeing 30+% swings in 30 minutes on cards is sad. This doc is a direct causation and both love the idea of watching about the history and chase and assuming these guys used their doc to pump and dump? Or someone associated… I cant look away. Call me crazy but even the raw are popping up at a rate I am mildly shocked by. Suddenly the shine is wearing off.
You’re clearly struggling with FOMO. If you’re looking for my advice, it is to stay calm. Buying at peak hype is an awful financial decision. Patience and composure pay dividends in collectible hobbies.
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Thank you, good advice.
Something I’ve enjoyed from smprattes Patreon is that you can buy at a peak price for relatively available cards but it’ll be hard for you to make a correct decision because you lack the full data. Is this stable price are things going up or down? It just brings on more risk that may be needed for very very rare items, but others may just cost more later but at least you know it’s supported by a market trend not solely a moment
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I liked the documentary and especially the timeline video that was previewed. I do a lot of research on the early cards and merchandise history and nonetheless I learned a lot. It can be a lot of work to go through these early sources; each CoroCoro magazine is around 700 pages in Japanese, and many issues are hard to find.
One thing I wanted to point out from a historical records perspective is that the ≈September 10th date for when the marketing cards were being used by employees isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison to the Carddass Part 1 release date of September 21-30. The Part 1 cards were surely in the hands of employees prior to their release, so to compare the two on a timeline we’d really need a print date for both cards (there isn’t really a release date for the marketing card, since it wasn’t released). I’m not aware of a first-print date for Part 1, but there’s still much to be discovered.
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I reallly liked the doc. Always a pleasure to see @maxmaxcity - and interesting to see @pfm in it with his thought process and life reaction discovering the Proto-fakes.
Both clearly good guys and both credits to the hobby.
Although I dont think it framed Gem Mint Pokemon very well, both with his involvement with the proto-fakes (although it does say he was a victim of sorts) and inferring he owned the 1st-1st or Marketing print of the Pikachu - when he wasnt the owner (he didnt say anything when John was making him an offer on it and said “we are too far apart”) - and then tried to buy it from the og owner afterwards.
Bad juju. Very naughty.
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Thought same thing, didn’t or couldn’t a pre production Carddass card exist?
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I think I can be more clear. When making a statement like “card X was earlier than card Y” you have to compare the same type of date for both cards. Some valid statements would be:
-
Card X’s release date was earlier than card Y’s release date, or
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Card X was distributed to employees at partner companies for marketing earlier than card Y was distributed to employees at partner companies for marketing
If you say “Card X was distributed to employees at partner companies for marketing earlier than Card Y was released”, that doesn’t really mean anything about which came first. You could use that type of comparison to change the order of events in any way you want.
So, this is not about the fact that it was a prerelease version. It’s that you can’t use different types of dates in comparisons to claim that one card was earlier than another.
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Exactly, some times a piece of info can be used to paint the picture or create a narrative that you want. After hearing their logic I immediately saw the flaw. If you want to say card X was earlier than release of card Y simply because you found a manufacturing/design date that preceded card Y’s actual public release date, fine now apply the same logic to card Y! I am not saying it absolutely would change things but it very likely could or would. Then if that mock up or marketing Cardass card is found a debate could be had about the completeness, was it used in public marketing yada yada. I just wished they used the same logic for Cardass or investigated its origin more so before making a definitive claim. Now in saying all that I would still call the glossy the first pokemon card, personally. Nuances will exist, but the same or similar method should be used for both.
“Elite Fourum, the 4chan of Pokemon”
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I looked a bit more into this since I do a lot of CoroCoro reading. There is strong evidence that Carddass Part 1 was sent to marketers before the glossy marketing Pika and Jiggly were.
Evidence 1: Images of Carddass Part 1 cards first appear in the October monthly CoroCoro issue, while images of the promo Pika and Jiggly only first appear in the monthly November issue.
Evidence 2: The strongest evidence, though, is that there are adverts (at least 5) announcing the upcoming Pika and Jiggly promo cards in the November issue, but rather than displaying the actual promo cards, they use pictures of two random base set cards, or else an image of the base set Pikachu, instead. This suggests that they did not have the marketing Pika and Jiggly yet. In my experience, CoroCoro pictures versions of products as close as possible to their final release version in its previews.
Below are two example announcements that appear in the October issue, previewing the November issue with Pika and Jiggly promos. More can be found in other coro scans (link1 link2)
Page 494 of October CoroCoro, a full-page ad for the next issue, promotes the upcoming 2 cards that will be included. But the graphic shows images of two random base set cards instead, the base set Ivysaur and Switch.
Translations (by AI):
①独占とじこみ付録 — Exclusive bound-in supplement
ポケットモンスター — Pocket Monsters (Pokémon)
2大キャラカード!! — 2 big character cards!!
コロコロだけのオリジナルポケモンカードが11月号を買ってくれた愛読者全員の手に入るのだ!! チョーヘビーグリーすぎるぜぃっ!! — Original Pokémon cards available only through CoroCoro, going into the hands of every reader who buys the November issue!! It’s super heavy-greasy!! (slang for “extremely cool”)
Page 176 below, another ad for the next issue, announces the Pika and Jiggly release, but shows an image of base set Pika instead of the promo Pika and Jiggly:
Translations (by AI):
Small text above the Pikachu: 10月に下旬発売のカードとほぼ同じ仕様の2枚をぞ! — Two cards in nearly the same spec as the ones going on sale in late October!
Large text just below the Pikachu:
ゲームカード独占企画 — Exclusive game-card feature (sidebar)
ポケモン — Pokémon (blue text)
ピカチュウ・プリン スペシャル版 2大キャラ — Pikachu & Jigglypuff (big green text), 2 big characters (red blurb), Special edition (red)
ゲームカード 完全ふろく— Game card, complete supplement (in green)
発売先行 — Ahead of release (white on black. Seems to refer to the fact that you could get the promos before the release of the TCG).
It is clear from the context that the Pikachu card image is in reference to the promo card announcement.
These photos were taken from Dogasu’s awesome 1996 blog page.
FWIW I have looked, but have not found any differences so far between the marketing images and release versions of Carddass Part 1 cards. You can see them pictured here in the October issue if you want to try.
At the moment I don’t think there is evidence to support the notion that the marketing Pika came before Part 1. We don’t even currently know whether the first regular, non-marketing Part 1 cards (printed for public release) were printed before or after the marketing Pika was printed. But that isn’t to discredit the marketing Pika, I think it is a very special card, and if the accounts are true then it played a big part in the origin of the TCG.
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Ivysaur and switch are the new 1st print pokemon tcg cards!!!
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From what I know, this Corocoro page layout was already designed by June 1996 and they were test printing the final version of the actual card by August 1996
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Does anyone have any info on the Cardass side of things (again not that I view it as the first pokemon card myself) but debate a side. I do not believe any public agreements/contracts available to show when it was licensed or production times. Best guesses are spring maybe?
There are two different classification types of cards and it also brings IT software release terminology into play also.
- Pokemon Test/Pre-Production(Marketing) Cards
- Pokemon Production/Public Release Cards
I think category 1 is still easily up in the air between Bandai, Corocoro and WOTC as you would need to know exact inner company accounts of who ran their test/pre-prod prints first on which date(and we may never know this). There of course is plenty of assumptions from print media we see but may never be fully definitive without company records. Also you could even seperate Test and pre-production cards into two categories again. Then you would ask, where are the test Corocoro cards. 
Category 2 I think has been solved already by many people on this forum as 1st Bandai, 2nd Corocoro 3rd WOTC. You could also seperate these into full set issues firsts and then it changes again. Side Note: don’t even get me started on the Jumbo cards as they need to be discussed a lot more from Bandai and Corocoro as they are pretty awesome and I would say in very limited supply.
There is also the sub-classification of first TCG formatted card as an important sub-classification which would sit under Pokemon production cards and this is what this Cardbound Doco really is defining primarily which is great - The first TCG formatted Production Card. The doco was also trying to label the very first Pokemon card produced but really the card is officially the first Corocoro Pokemon pre-production/test card until more definitive evidence is found. What the doco covers is very good but as others have shown on here there is marketing photos of other early cards in the mix.
A general note: All cards and sets through this 1996 era are all highly important and many are in limited numbers in existence so that is just the fun of collecting any of them.
I really enjoyed the doco. Sure there was hype and excitement, but why not. It’s great to celebrate the confirmation of the first TCG formatted production/public release cards - Pikachu and Jigglypuff Glossy 1996. It’s purely history discovered and it’s important for the hobby.
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It’s gross how much they made this about themselves and the content creators who collect the cards rather than the cards, history and Pokemon itself.
If you’re interested in watching as grift free as possible docs around Pokémon cards, I’d highly recommend No Sleeve Left Behind.