Can someone help me? - (PSA stole my submission)

[malin]

Hello everyone,

Zack, gemmintpokemon, recommended i make a post here! so hopefully someone will know what to do, and if not, at least i tried!

I need help with my submission, i had actually given up, lost all my joy in collecting, and felt so much anger towards PSA i didn’t want to collect anymore.
Now i’m slowly getting back.. because i truly love collecting, and pokemon is really something special for me, it has been for 27 years, so I won’t let a grading company ruin it for me.

I will try to explain it as easy as I can.

I’ve been a customer of PSA since 2016, when I really got into graded card collecting.
In May 2023, i had a submission that was finished.
PSA asked me to review the order and all that, I did, looked good. Then they messaged me and said, they were not able to charge me. I updated the billing information. Got the same response. (However I also have an email saying, no further action required.. I have a lot of emails back and forth)
I asked if there was any other way for me to pay. No response to that. I asked them to try again. Checked with my bank, they said there shouldn’t be any issue.
Then I kept messaging them about this, but I was never provided with any new ways to pay. They blocked my PSA account. (said it was due to not paying outstanding payment)
After a while I received a mail that my submission was shipped. (YAY I thought) But the tracking number provided was: LIQUIDATED. woah. ok. This is serious. We’re talking a lot of value (in my eyes at least, several thousand dollars) I asked them what happened. They had to sell my cards to cover the grading cost. (which was $720. Declared value $8000 (worth way more today.. but mainly this is my personal collection and has way more value than any number) so. I told them no, i don’t accept this. I have tried and tried to get another way to pay. with no response. so.. i gave up. stopped collecting. didn’t even want to look at my cards. except a few emails trying.. but nothing. so i gave up..

now 3 years later.. getting into collecting again mainly because of my 8 yo nephew is getting into it, and then me realizing how much i love it. I watched some videos about stuff with PSA and also them selling one of my cards (i have all the certs and grades) this month from their vault. so, here i go!

I am international, located in Norway. so going to meet them at their offices won’t be possible for me.

Thank you for reading, and if you have any information or any way to help I would appreciate it more than I know how to explain.

Malin

[Dyl]

Hello Malin,

I am so sorry that this happened to you. You have no legal recourse here. When you submitted your cards, you agreed to PSA’s Terms of Service. On Item 17. Delinquent Payments and PSA’s Security Interest, PSA notes that they will obtain ownership of your cards for liquidation purposes if they cannot obtain payment. This was three years ago, so PSA is now executing its security interest in your submitted cards by selling them and applying the proceeds to the delinquent balance. By not paying, you relinquished ownership of the graded cards.

I hope that this was helpful.

---

17. Delinquent Payments and PSA’s Security Interest. You agree (a) to pay to PSA all pricing and other charges when due; (b) that any delinquent balances shall accrue interest at the rate of 10% per year until paid (or, if less, the maximum interest rate permitted by applicable law); and (c) that PSA shall have a security interest in the items submitted, as well as in any other property of yours in the possession of PSA or its affiliates (collectively, the “Property”), to secure your payment obligations hereunder. You hereby grant to PSA an assignment of and lien against the Property in the amount of any fees and other charges due and payable pursuant to the Terms for the applicable PSA Services. You hereby authorize PSA to file, at any time on or after the date such pricing totals and other charges become due, appropriate uniform commercial code and/or personal property financing statements in such jurisdictions and offices as PSA deems necessary in connection with the perfection of a security interest in the Property. If you do not pay all obligations due under the Terms, PSA will execute its security interest in your submitted item(s) by selling or otherwise disposing of such item(s) and applying any proceeds to the delinquent balance.

[malin]

Hi
They have told me this, or something similar.

however, the problem I have is, I don’t understand why they were not able to charge for my order or why I couldn’t get another way of paying for the order

[Dyl]

Which payment options did you try?

I recommend for European buyers to use credit cards. I understand that credit cards are not used homogeneously across Europe, but they can make your life easier if you frequently interact with U.S. merchants.

[malin]

I updated my payment many many times but was only able to add cards for them to charge (I asked for other ways to pay, like if I made the payment instead of them charging me) if that makes sense, but they never replied to my request. I also suggested PayPal or whatever, I really wanted to sort this, but I was met with a wall.

..and about a month or two before this one I had a submission go through without any issue, same payment method. And that has always been the case, I have had many submission for many years without issue.

[malin]

[malin]

[Dyl]

Sounds like a one-off issue then. Really sorry that it happened like that. Because it’s been 3 years, you’re out of luck now.

[malin]

That’s what I think also. Just putting it here in case someone knows any way it’ll be possible to do anything, it just feels really bad. I tried so much for so long, not getting anywhere.. I feel defeated.

[zubat]

May I ask if PSA returned to you the money that was in excess of the grading fees + interest?

[malin]

No, I got absolutely nothing.

[MattCollects64]

Did this happen three years ago and you’re looking for resolution now because the value of cards went up? Sorry if I’m misunderstanding, but why did you not push harder or try to resolve it when it happened? After all this time, there is nothing anyone can do to help you.

[malin]

yes it’s a long time ago. and i tried, and tried, and tried some more to resolve it back when it happened. i don’t know how i could have pushed any harder back then. i was trying to push a mountain. but i never got anywhere, so my joy for collecting got liquidated along with the sub.

I don’t care about the value increase, i care that i will never get the cards back in my collection, now that im slowly getting back into collecting.

I don’t really expect anything to come from this. I gave up all hope a long time ago. however talking to Zack made me get a teeny tiny drop of hope. so i made a post.

[sonicsmashdown]

Not necessarily true. Civil (contract) fraud has a statute of limitations of 6 years in some places from the date of the fraudulent act, and two years from the date you ‘discovered’ it. If they failed to pay back the funds that were due in excess of the contractually agreed stipulations within item 17, they could be on the hook for a lawsuite. Even more so if you can prove that you did try to satisfy the contract’s terms from the initial discrepency of the payment. and they still sold your card to make up for the costs they incurred. This is just my private take though. You would have to look into the specifics of your case. They would be liable for the funds they received exceeding their agreed costs to be returned to the original owner regardless.

[malin]

Thank you. A while back I requested to get the excess funds, but they said " Please know that all cards are being listed for the amount of fees PSA was owed and nothing more. The sole purpose is to attempt to recoup our unpaid fees, not to make a profit. For quick reference, we advise that you simply review the fees listed on your original PSA submission forms, as that is our sales price. Attached are copies of your original submission forms for reference on the card description(s) and fees per card owed."

but i haven’t seen any proof of this.. haven’t seen this sale, i just sent them a new email about it. requesting to see the sale.

reading through my emails between me and PSA now, I am BEGGING them to let me sign in to my account so i can try to pay another way. but they NEVER reply or give me any way to make things right.. it is absolutely ridiculous when i look at it. I have been completely ignored by them.

[malin]

Actually I found two emails first one saying I should get the exceeded funds from the sales, then later after they claim to have sold it, saying that it was sold for what I owed them and nothing more..

[Nurwing]

That seems awfully convenient that they sold for the exact amount you owed

[malin]

Yes.. they sent me an email before they sold saying:

You are entitled to an accounting of the unpaid indebtedness secured by the property, including the proceeds we ultimately receive from the sale of the property. You are entitled to proceeds that exceed your indebtedness

But I didn’t receive anything..

Checked PSA’s estimated value on the cards and it’s above $25.000, and then if I got that money, I would still have to pay 25% import fees + shipping and all the work finding all the cards.

which is quite excessive for a $720 payment..

I have been in contact with someone at PSA again now, trying to explain the situation. But it’s the same bs, they don’t respond to my questions.

I got some good tips from Gemini on what to do next! So hopefully something good comes from this.