Note: this discussion was branched off from a different thread
I am somewhat sceptical about modern too. The thing though is that ´modern´ is a somewhat interpretable term. I would say Sun & Moon is already too old to be modern. This also aligns with the print numbers that were a lot lower then.
2017 sun and moon sets would def still be considered ultra modern imo
B&w is modern
Welcome @ArcticLapras, I can already see your comment on S&M being a good discussion topic with different opinions so I preemptively branched it off.
I agree that SM is too old to be modern
@Swoobot would you consider the Pokémon Sun and Moon era to be ‘Modern’?
Ah, the eternal debate of what constitutes “modern”! Personally, I’d categorize the Sun & Moon era as more “transitional” than “modern.” In this ever-shifting landscape, I lean towards considering Sword & Shield and newer sets to be “ultra-modern.”
The print runs and market dynamics have changed drastically over recent years, making S&M feel more like it straddles the line between modern and more vintage eras. If I had to pick sides, I’d say no, Sun & Moon isn’t modern—it’s vintage-ish but not quite there yet.
But hey, that’s just me and a few others from the cabal. Others might label it differently. What does everyone else think?
I think S&M is transitional rather than ‘Modern’ per se, and that’s my original opinion.
That’s actually a good question!
My first instinct is to say yes…but it’s now a set from before the mass printed covid era, so it kinda doesn’t fit with a lot of what we’re calling modern now.
Maybe we need to start classifying eras in a different way than just “vintage” & “modern”? Perhaps ages (Golden Age, Silver Age etc) or waves would work better now the franchise is three decades old?
Gen 1 & 2 > 1st Wave (end of WoTC)
Gen 3 & 4 > 2nd Wave (end of cosmos holo)
Gen 5 > 3rd Wave (introduction of full arts)
Gen 6 & 7 > 4th Wave (introduction of full art trainers/more elaborate full arts)
Gen 8 > 5th Wave (introduction of alt arts/higher mass printed sets)
Gen 9 > 6th Wave (introduction of silver borders & overhaul of rarities)
Reminder that sun and moon was released in 2016.
Also reminder that despite popular belief, 2016 was 8 years ago, not 3
Pls stahp
@quibble I like this take, I think it’s more necessary to broaden the categories the longer the tcg has been going. It was always easier to separate between vintage and modern because the end of the WOTC and Nintendo eras never felt that long ago, and they always seemed to be distinguishable markers that separated everything that feels ‘newer’ to ‘older’.
Also, for anyone else worried how quickly time appears to be moving, I read this article that hypothesises why we perceive time to move quicker as we age. tl;dr is age = more neural pathways in brain = longer distances for signals to travel = longer processing time = we perceive fewer ‘frames per second’ of reality through our eyes compared to when we were kids.
Depends on your definition of modern and whether it changes over time, if you’re trying to split the entire TCG into a “vintage” and “modern” dichotomy, etc.
I partly agree with this post from another thread on the topic, which divided the TCG into three eras:
However, I’d alter the timings a bit.
Vintage: 1997-2010 (Base-HGSS)
Modern: 2011-2016 (BW-XY)
Ultra Modern: 2017-present (SM-SV)
i still believe Gen 3/4 should be “Retro” (distinguished from 1-2), but otherwise I agree
This is how I think of the TCG gens.
If I only had three categories:
If I only had two categories:
plz explain
EX and DPPt have similar chase cards (e.g., 
and Lv.X.). Though Platinum does feel a little different than the rest of D&P.
The Prime cards of HGSS feel more similar to the CGI full arts in BW.
XY and SM continue to push the envelope of what makes a “good” full art card, which leads to alt arts.
SW/SH and S/V mastered and expanded alt arts.
i think this question will always be impossible to answer in a way that satisfies everyone bc some people look at it as how old the era is while others look at specific changes to the cards themselves.
i subscribe to the latter
we can all agree base-neo at the very least is vintage.
however e-series was the first big change for jp
regardless, i think we can all agree that base-e/legendary collection is one era (gen 1-2)
next would be gen 3 which introduced ultra rares (exes) as well as a change in set order that lasted through HGSS internationally
if you want to simplify the eras, this would also be tied with gen 1-2 IMO bc this is also the last years of set holos being the cosmos foil
Note: this era is also distinguished from 1-2 as "Retro" for TCG players, whereas 1-2 are considered "Legacy" formats
next would be the biggest change in the TCG globally since its conception, BW era
along with this change for international set structure, it also introduced the modern JP rarity symbol system
Note: BW is also the earliest "Expanded" format goes for the sanctioned TCG format outside of Standard
XY added onto the BW system, but was not an overhaul (stuff like introducing the double rare - RR and the introduction of Special Arts in sets as an even fancier Full Art for example)
SM did introduce quite a few things, but really it just added a bunch of new rarities such as rainbow cards, full art gold cards, character arts, shiny rarities, and full art items/stadiums.
SwSh was a continuation of SM in just about everyway. IMO, these two gens (like BW/XY) should always be lumped together bc aesthetically they are nearly identical
SV is the next biggest overhaul to international set since BW (so if we’re counting, this would be the 3rd major era in the grand scheme of things) where it not only homogenized everything to have silver borders, but also adopted the JP rarity/set order system for secret rares as well as adopting things like double rares (double star).
so, with all that said, i think BW on is “modern”. everything before and after is up for discussion with how picky you want to be.
i do like the idea of “ultra modern” (although i would call it something more unique, like contemporary aka current) starting with SM because the cards then are really quite similar to the cards now in almost every way aside from the borders (for non-TPC printed regions)
if you want to know where i grabbed these screenshots from, you can check out the articles i made with PFM regarding Set Order and Rarity overhauls throughout the history of the TCG
I classify Gen 1-3 as vintage, 4th gen as an intermediate no man’s land and everything after as modern without adverbs.
But if I was to look at a card and say “yeah that actually looks and feels like an actual vintage card” then only Base-Neo Destiny fits that description.
yeah the 1st ed stamp removal was the end of the classic wotc look. After that ex and late wotc sorta look similar and I would not be surprised if casual fans didnt consider LC and expedition to be Vintage
Yeah, the reprints go in truvintage despite the lack of stamps and LC release date but Expedition and out is definitely a new era.
A lot of people still call ex mid era so I think the wotc transfer is about as official of a cut off point as we will get for vintage even if it doesn’t really represent anything more than licencing changes
