Trophy Kangaskhan new price point

[pokebowl]

@yz2428

@pokebowl

Congrats to both parties, I think @seeingdouble may have just worded his opinion and comments a bit too roughly and now there’s a bunch of petty back and worth between everyone, but his point (from what I understand) is that this is not the “new price point” (as is suggested in the title), and had both parties made this thread to simply discuss their excitement (which seems to be shared between both of them) on the trade as well as disclose the terms and details of the transaction (which is very honourable and potentially a sign that others may begin to be more transparent and forthcoming about these types of transactions) that it would have been more than fine and inviting towards the discussion that followed… but to suggest the terms of a new price point / floor is potentially dangerous in that the deal or transaction hasn’t closed/concluded and as much as everyone on this forum and the “more-involved” community members seem to leave no doubts of any conniving or manipulative intentions, business is business and sh*t happens, so a lot can change in the next days, weeks and months.

And to those giving examples of other forms of asset backed loans, I don’t really think this is comparable… if anything you should look into the mechanics used by a pawn shop and jewellers when it comes to lending $ for illiquid (granted much more liquid than Pokemon cards) assets… but even at that this isn’t a loan by any definition, it’s just a business transaction involving a balance of sale… this hobby is maturing as everyone suggests and these types of deals are common practice in business, but agreed, that they by no means imply a “new price point” by any means. These terms solely imply terms that 2 individuals were comfortable in accepting to proceed with their transaction. I’ll give a quick scenario, but if @chavycat has ran all the numbers and factored in all the variables in his research, he might believe the PSA 10 Khan is actually worth X today at market value, but given Y circumstances and information he possesses (due to his thorough research and experience in this card’s market), the card will be worth Z by February of 2021 and because he’s engaging in some type of layaway acquisition plan, he may have decided to add an X premium over that future price as well… but it seems more obvious its just someone who’s passionate about the hobby and that card as a collector and just genuinely wants it in his collection and portfolio

don’t try to defend what he said. it was clear as day. be an adult.

secondly, the point of the post is not saying this is market price, but simply a new data point. so let’s all calm down.

The title clearly says “new price point” I’d accept the new data point part had the title even included just a “new price point?” … it’s clear as day that the title of this post and the transaction both parties engaged in as well as the initial discussion suggests the final value of this transaction as a new price point, BEFORE he made his comment.

I’m not defending his delivery, maybe he’s been bottling up his frustration or comments towards the hobby, transactions like these, suggestions like these, maybe even certain members, etc. and decided to attack the discussion in that way, but let’s be clear as day, this is not a “new price point” lol.

There’s a post somewhere on the board right now talking about booster box prices and some other member other than OP dropped a comment about a recent sale that he engaged in, and compared his experience to whatever it is they are talking about there in terms of price and market for those boxes… and there’s a few people right away suggesting that this guy might have left some food on the table, or didn’t capture the most he could on that sale, or he undervalued the items he sold off (you get the point)… and the guy comes out (as if to have to defend himself in regards to his own sale lol) and says don’t be fooled by what the recently sold suggests on eBay because I had to deal with a million different lowballers or weird offers or fake bidders/offer makers and at the end of the day, despite this “hot” market (the sale was recent) and this suggestion that certain booster boxes are “now” worth ___, I settled for what was the best and real offer that came my way at that given moment.

Everyone is so quick to assume that certain public transactions on anything vintage or WOTC or rare suggest certain price floors. The big hype of the last few months is that a Skyridge booster box is now worth north anything of 35k USD, but there just hasn’t been any for sale on eBay in at least 90 days (at least that ended in a sale), so everyone can think what they want, but that guy or girl who has a so called "
35k+" booster box in their possession, if the time came to list, would everyone be present to come and show their support and bid or purchase it? Probably not. And some random dude with cash on craigslist or FB Marketplace may end up being the only valid offer he gets and he shuts his mouth and takes the 25k cash the individual is giving them today, live, on the spot which that person needs for whatever reason and this person couldn’t care less about everyone’s opinion because he bought that box for a few hundred bucks or got it on a trade worth a few grand a couple years ago. Sure, people are going to come and say there’s been dozens of skyridge booster box transactions conducted privately in the last 90 days lol, but that isn’t the point here. There’s multi million dollar items posted on ebay and listed all the time, a couple dozen grand is small potatoes… not everyone is going to be “too shy” if that’s even an excuse to post and list that box for sale.

[casual]

@qwachansey

@fazool I didn’t want to flex too hard but most of my assets are my rare stamp collection. Not liquid cash. I guess that makes me fiscally irresponsible. Just can’t win these days.

But most people would value UCs way more than NP regardless and would pay tons for a UC paint brush or de-converter.

This.
I would pay like 100M+ neopoints for a UC de-converter

[pierce]

Since we’re flexing assets I have a UC darigan draik

[qwachansey]

@pierce

Since we’re flexing assets I have a UC darigan draik

Omg… This is a much bigger deal than any Pokémon card.

[rainbow]

Can’t we all just be courteous of others views? Why must it always devolve into petty bullshit?
Here are some points I see:

Suddenly there are a lot of price recording threads. While this is great on the surface, here are a couple of issues I see with the practice.

1. They seem to attempt to mark a line in the sand and are usually constructed by those with a vested interest.
2. They reflect private sales - and although many of you are likely to be very trustworthy, I am also aware how prevalent shill bids are in the public’s eye, let alone the real potential for people to attempt to shift values through facade sales. Some might state that this is a pessimistic view but I prefer to see it as a realistic one. I understand that many sales go this route to avoid sales tax and other service fees, but they are still deals made behind closed doors and as such cannot be viewed without caution. I am not suggesting anything nefarious has occurred here, just that it isn’t improbable that it could occur.

The next point is sales with trade components.

Sales with trade components have more moving parts. Instead of just having the price of one card being the variable against a selected currency, there are more, and as such they are inclined to move disproportionally making them unable to as easily express accurate price equivalencies when compared to money.

Then there is the point that usually someone in a trade deal comes out better or worse than if the transaction was made via money. This again highlights the inefficient nature of using trade deals as price point landmarks. I’m not pouring any negativity into this conversation, I am just merely providing another, probably unimportant point of view.

I am all for sharing this information. I don’t really think this thread is a shining example of how to do that and perhaps there should be a ‘giant price landmark thread’ or something similar. But that’s my opinion and I don’t assume it to be shared by everyone.

I also find the dick measuring to be quite silly.

The idea that successful people with money would not participate in discussions, or bargain buy is a bit rich.
I personally find I get the most enjoyment from this hobby by keeping a finger on the pulse of a lot of what other people would call pretty average items – sure I can buy them now, but that’s not the point. I have my work and investments outside of pokemon, watching parts of the market is my fun; and at times obsessively so. My time is no less valuable because of it, it just means I value the enjoyment it provides, that much more. In a lot of ways the lifeblood of the market is the hobby for me. More so than collecting the cardboard itself.
But everyone is different and I choose to respect that.

So if someone is proud of a PSA 8 or any other items, then I am happy for them and don’t think anyone should ever shame anyone else for the things they derive enjoyment from that are both legal and well within societal norms.

[seeingdouble]

@buckna

@seeingdouble

apples to oranges.

They setup a IOU and made a down payment with pokemon card, and are calling it a new price point.

If you finance a car and still owe money, you don’t get the title of the car =)

I own an 8 figure home, if I stop paying my mortgage guess what happens?

Technically its sold, but it isn’t mine

Same with this card.

Technically its sold, but the deal isn’t done and chavy doesn’t own it.

8 figure home and flexes psa 8s on instagram.

I’ve had instagram for 2 years and made a total of 50 post with all of 8 this year. I have never done anything close to ‘flexing’. I post pictures of my collection most of the time with bulbapedia descriptions of the cards. Besides, I got into the hobby to collect the cards, not the grades. I don’t need PSA 10s to feel good about myself or feel worthy of participating in discussion on an internet forum. I just enjoy collecting cards so your comment is just silly and irrelevant. I have seen you openly discuss and flexing your finances and sales here and on the discord many times, stop projecting.

[qwachansey]

Idk how people can complain about private sales data thrown around or sales on eBay that don’t go through or hints at private offers, but then also complain when people share the exact details of their transaction. If you need a video tape proof because you don’t have enough trust in the people posting then just ignore the sale and focus on heritage or pwcc or whatever you like. There’s “sales” in every hobby Pokémon included to take with a grain of salt but you can’t have it both ways.

Honestly the rarer the card the less reason to ever share info even when you want to help people with public knowledge which sucks. Example I traded publicly for a rare card in January and had so many people message me “is that the real price?? Was that a good deal? Wow so expensive you overpaid / wow great deal”. Like I’m happy to help but A) no one asked you mind your business and B) it doesn’t matter what you think the price should be because none have been on the market since and no one with a graded copy is ever gonna sell.

Then if you ever try to qualify a purchase it looks like you’re shilling. Second example I purchased another rare card I had wanted for a long time a few weeks ago. The seller was brand new to Yahoo Japan zero feedback. middleman sites have a policy of not letting you bid or purchase from no feedback sellers. When I messaged saying I understood the risk zen market actually removed the listing because it was too risky for them to deal with. Nevertheless I trusted my instinct that the seller was legit and purchased the card (ungraded). I thought it was an excellent deal because I would have happily paid more for a graded copy from a trusted seller on the western market. But if someone asks me the price and I were to say "I paid X which I thought was a good deal because I would’ve paid X + 40% to avoid the calculated risk I had to take " it just sounds like I’m shilling a card I have no intention to ever sell.

[cosrob]

Anyone want to want sell me an illustrator for 450k paid no later than february 2026 and some sun moon booster boxes?

Would be a record price.

Edit: Interest free

[admiral77]

Congratulations!!

And thank you for sharing! very generous of both of you !

[rainbow]

@qwachansey

Idk how people can complain about private sales data thrown around or sales on eBay that don’t go through or hints at private offers, but then also complain when people share the exact details of their transaction. If you need a video tape proof because you don’t have enough trust in the people posting then just ignore the sale and focus on heritage or pwcc or whatever you like. There’s “sales” in every hobby Pokémon included to take with a grain of salt but you can’t have it both ways.

Honestly the rarer the card the less reason to ever share info even when you want to help people with public knowledge which sucks. Example I traded publicly for a rare card in January and had so many people message me “is that the real price?? Was that a good deal? Wow so expensive you overpaid / wow great deal”. Like I’m happy to help but A) no one asked you mind your business and B) it doesn’t matter what you think the price should be because none have been on the market since and no one with a graded copy is ever gonna sell.

Then if you ever try to qualify a purchase it looks like you’re shilling. Second example I purchased another rare card I had wanted for a long time a few weeks ago. The seller was brand new to Yahoo Japan zero feedback. middleman sites have a policy of not letting you bid or purchase from no feedback sellers. When I messaged saying I understood the risk zen market actually removed the listing because it was too risky for them to deal with. Nevertheless I trusted my instinct that the seller was legit and purchased the card (ungraded). I thought it was an excellent deal because I would have happily paid more for a graded copy from a trusted seller on the western market. But if someone asks me the price and I were to say "I paid X which I thought was a good deal because I would’ve paid X + 40% to avoid the calculated risk I had to take " it just sounds like I’m shilling a card I have no intention to ever sell.

I think I addressed the main concerns.
People don’t share their private sales data out of the kindness of their hearts, they do so:

1. To broadcast to everyone else that a new price has been established, so that everyone knows that the price has increased. You can’t have everyone thinking no change in price has happened, otherwise you’ve overpaid and who will believe you if you ever sell down the line. No it’s better to shout that bad boy from the roof tops.

2. To satisfy their ego. To be congratulated, envied, or adored for their purchase. I may be stretching it, but you get the point. There is a lot of pride associated with certain acquisitions from people who that way inclined.
   Both of these serve the card holder in some way and there is nothing wrong with either of them but the sharing isn’t exactly without purpose.
   Again, I’m not against the sharing of private sales data I just think it’s wise to be cautious about their unverified nature.
   Then there is the idea that people are generally far less enthusiastic to share sales with lower than record prices and will tend to discount the instances stating a number of reasons (or perhaps excuses) as to why they didn’t perform as expected.

It is what it is.

I don’t really want to get into outlier scenarios of cheaper prices coming at the cost of higher associated risks or through lack of convenience etc. I think people are smart enough to understand transactions of similar nature and context are able to be compared more accurately.
Let’s not make this into a big deal.

[smpratte]

This thread is exactly why I don’t share private sales.

Sorry you guys are getting salt for sharing a unique transaction. It’s unfortunate our hobby is so relentlessly immature.

[handschoen]

A different but very cool trade/sale. Great to see both parties are happy with the deal and thank youboth for sharing.
#everykangisbeautiful

[macarver]

Just wanted to say that to me those are two of the most visually appealing cards in the hobby, I absolutely love that original Sugimori artwork on both. Iconic. Both up there with the Illustrator as the most beautiful trophy artwork.

And thanks for sharing the information and your excitement about the deal, always interesting and educating to hear how exactly some of the high end private transactions are concluded.

[pokebowl]

@smpratte

This thread is exactly why I don’t share private sales.

Sorry you guys are getting salt for sharing a unique transaction. It’s unfortunate our hobby is so relentlessly immature.

You’re adding absolutely no value to the discussion, but especially the untraditional response one user made in regards to the post and the discussion that ensued. And that’s totally fine given your position on the forum and where you stand in general on the actual subject discussed, but I’d like to know why some member’s (although, perhaps very aggressive) opinion is considered “salty” when he is only suggesting this thread, its title and its original premise is potentially misleading?

Does a transaction of this nature (in your opinion), with the terms detailed, suggest an actual “new price point” or price floor, as in the new suggested price for such a card and its grade? The key here is the terms outlined which is what seems to be concerning most individuals in disagreement. Or does it simply suggest a transaction, which both the terms and the details, satisfied the personal opinions and their individual tolerance to risk/decision-making of two individuals wishing to conduct and engage in a trade they both deemed fitting and agreeing?

I think that’s more the type of answer or opinion, for the most part, anyone who hopes you would answer in this type of thread, is looking for. Especially since you preach financial literacy, tolerance, risk exposure, etc. The fact you’re stating this is why you don’t initiate or encourage/engage in topics of this nature because of the type of discussion or potential backlash that ensues (which is for the most part just critical opinions, although masked at times such as the individual here in question in a more aggressive way) suggests you soundly believe private sales data should be left… private? If this hobby is to mature more than it has, and the portfolio’s or collections of those who have been long-time members of both this forum and the community are to continue to rise and appreciate, it only makes sense that questions and discussions like these be challenged and those who hold a voice of reason, authority and more importantly, experience, are heard entirely and objectively?

You can chose to discuss what you like, form opinions on what you want (they can be manipulative, convincing, unconvincing, serve to disservice, etc.) it doesn’t really make a difference to me at least, but the least I would expect (and again, this is a forum, a forum you own, manage and govern – so you can decide to do and say what you want, how you want and when you want to of course), and I believe many do, would be a sound opinion on an important and potentially heavily-weighted discussion such as this one.

Do complex transactions such as this one, involving the acquisition of much rarer and niche cards in the Pokemon TCG world, merit to be documented and held in importance in regards to discussing, suggesting and affirming new price points and floors for the mentioned cards? Or should one potential investor, speculator or collector, tread with caution when “new price points” of this nature are suggested and documented because of the complexity of the deal that ensued, the nature of the transactional deals and of course the obvious, the time-delayed nature of the completion and closure of the deal?

Again, this isn’t a jab or some type of suggestion of throwing shots, and as I mentioned above, I don’t really agree with the way this one member decided to completely disagree with the thread, but it would be nice to hear your opinion on the actual subject being discussed and what you genuinely and whole heartedly believe about these types of transactions. You’d be surprised at how much everyone respects your opinion, and this on a global and international level.

[alakazamthat]

If I was dealing with high end transaction. I would do the same to complete my goal.

[alienlien]

@pokebowl

@yz2428

don’t try to defend what he said. it was clear as day. be an adult.

secondly, the point of the post is not saying this is market price, but simply a new data point. so let’s all calm down.

The title clearly says “new price point” I’d accept the new data point part had the title even included just a “new price point?” … it’s clear as day that the title of this post and the transaction both parties engaged in as well as the initial discussion suggests the final value of this transaction as a new price point, BEFORE he made his comment.

I’m not defending his delivery, maybe he’s been bottling up his frustration or comments towards the hobby, transactions like these, suggestions like these, maybe even certain members, etc. and decided to attack the discussion in that way, but let’s be clear as day, this is not a “new price point” lol.

There’s a post somewhere on the board right now talking about booster box prices and some other member other than OP dropped a comment about a recent sale that he engaged in, and compared his experience to whatever it is they are talking about there in terms of price and market for those boxes… and there’s a few people right away suggesting that this guy might have left some food on the table, or didn’t capture the most he could on that sale, or he undervalued the items he sold off (you get the point)… and the guy comes out (as if to have to defend himself in regards to his own sale lol) and says don’t be fooled by what the recently sold suggests on eBay because I had to deal with a million different lowballers or weird offers or fake bidders/offer makers and at the end of the day, despite this “hot” market (the sale was recent) and this suggestion that certain booster boxes are “now” worth ___, I settled for what was the best and real offer that came my way at that given moment.

Everyone is so quick to assume that certain public transactions on anything vintage or WOTC or rare suggest certain price floors. The big hype of the last few months is that a Skyridge booster box is now worth north anything of 35k USD, but there just hasn’t been any for sale on eBay in at least 90 days (at least that ended in a sale), so everyone can think what they want, but that guy or girl who has a so called "
35k+" booster box in their possession, if the time came to list, would everyone be present to come and show their support and bid or purchase it? Probably not. And some random dude with cash on craigslist or FB Marketplace may end up being the only valid offer he gets and he shuts his mouth and takes the 25k cash the individual is giving them today, live, on the spot which that person needs for whatever reason and this person couldn’t care less about everyone’s opinion because he bought that box for a few hundred bucks or got it on a trade worth a few grand a couple years ago. Sure, people are going to come and say there’s been dozens of skyridge booster box transactions conducted privately in the last 90 days lol, but that isn’t the point here. There’s multi million dollar items posted on ebay and listed all the time, a couple dozen grand is small potatoes… not everyone is going to be “too shy” if that’s even an excuse to post and list that box for sale.

Patreon this month will be spicy

[lebleu]

@seeingdouble, If you want to roleplay millionaire businessman at least try to sound like one. Your math is quite wrong in your stories of wealth.

Secondly, you should be at least happy our hobby is healthy since with all this cash of yours you’ll have no problem affording anything you want !

@hyruleguardian,

@chavycat, congratulations to you both! Thanks for sharing a deal like this with us!

[null_user]

@lebleu

@seeingdouble, If you want to roleplay millionaire businessman at least try to sound like one. Your math is quite wrong in your stories of wealth.

Secondly, you should be at least happy our hobby is healthy since with all this cash of yours you’ll have no problem affording anything you want !

@hyruleguardian,

@chavycat, congratulations to you both! Thanks for sharing a deal like this with us!

Lol!

[chavycat]

@pokecollectoramy

All this drama aside, I’m just curious why the $600 cash in the down payment lol

The remaining balance after the trade of the 2 cards and $100 discount for me traveling to the city was 53.k. And I hate uneven numbers. So I just offered the other 600 to make it even ha. And he agreed

[chavycat]

@rainbow

Can’t we all just be courteous of others views? Why must it always devolve into petty bullshit?
Here are some points I see:

Suddenly there are a lot of price recording threads. While this is great on the surface, here are a couple of issues I see with the practice.

1. They seem to attempt to mark a line in the sand and are usually constructed by those with a vested interest.
2. They reflect private sales - and although many of you are likely to be very trustworthy, I am also aware how prevalent shill bids are in the public’s eye, let alone the real potential for people to attempt to shift values through facade sales. Some might state that this is a pessimistic view but I prefer to see it as a realistic one. I understand that many sales go this route to avoid sales tax and other service fees, but they are still deals made behind closed doors and as such cannot be viewed without caution. I am not suggesting anything nefarious has occurred here, just that it isn’t improbable that it could occur.

The next point is sales with trade components.

Sales with trade components have more moving parts. Instead of just having the price of one card being the variable against a selected currency, there are more, and as such they are inclined to move disproportionally making them unable to as easily express accurate price equivalencies when compared to money.

Then there is the point that usually someone in a trade deal comes out better or worse than if the transaction was made via money. This again highlights the inefficient nature of using trade deals as price point landmarks. I’m not pouring any negativity into this conversation, I am just merely providing another, probably unimportant point of view.

I am all for sharing this information. I don’t really think this thread is a shining example of how to do that and perhaps there should be a ‘giant price landmark thread’ or something similar. But that’s my opinion and I don’t assume it to be shared by everyone.

I also find the dick measuring to be quite silly.

The idea that successful people with money would not participate in discussions, or bargain buy is a bit rich.
I personally find I get the most enjoyment from this hobby by keeping a finger on the pulse of a lot of what other people would call pretty average items – sure I can buy them now, but that’s not the point. I have my work and investments outside of pokemon, watching parts of the market is my fun; and at times obsessively so. My time is no less valuable because of it, it just means I value the enjoyment it provides, that much more. In a lot of ways the lifeblood of the market is the hobby for me. More so than collecting the cardboard itself.
But everyone is different and I choose to respect that.

So if someone is proud of a PSA 8 or any other items, then I am happy for them and don’t think anyone should ever shame anyone else for the things they derive enjoyment from that are both legal and well within societal norms.

Maybe “data point” would have been a better word to use.
I in now way wanted to makebthe point that “this is now the going price and anyone who pays less than this price for a fake card is a fake fan” or something along those lines. If two other parties make a deal for another psa trophy kangaskhan and their price point is 70k, that’s more than okay. I’d imagine that someone wouldn’t mind accepting a little less money for all of the cash up front.
There are also 3 copies on ebay now with the lowest price being 120k OBO. So if the next sale happens to be 100k, I wouldn’t consider that the minimum for a card like this. I just love data and thought this was a really fun and interesting sale. Since this card isn’t sold very often.
I understand you being in the side if caution with private sales.