I think this is an awesome conversation given this is 20 years since release. That being said, I would gladly share my set numbers. Given no other holos are thick after base set, I think this alone makes them a little more desirable.
Thick > Thin
All of mine are thick stamp but that is bias as I only try to collect them as such. I will say, that while searching eBay, facebook, and PWCC for PSA 8 holos (grade I am targeting) there seems to be an over whelming majority of thin stamps. It is quite frustrating. Maybe 1 in 5 card in PSA 8 is an actual thick stamp. I don’t search religiously but that is my anecdotal observation in my journey.
Thanks for all the research, very interesting subject matter to me. I think the thick stamps just add another layer of uniqueness to the already amazing 1st edition base.
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Solid sample and great work—thank you for sharing!
On the topic of which came first, no one has ever ruled out that thin came first or that they were printed contemporaneously. There’s a poster released February 1999 (likely designed significantly before then) that shows the holos with thin stamps:
www.elitefourum.com/t/questions-about-japanese-poster-with-english-base-pictures/33397/1
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Solid point indeed. Here the two relevant pictures from that linked thread’s Instagram post:
Not all of the Holofoil Rares have thin 1st edition stamps on that poster, though. The Venusaur for example looks like a thick stamp:
And I also always thought it was weird that the Mewtwo is Shadowless without 1st edition symbol when I saw that poster for the first time a few years back. Then again, the very first ‘released’ English Base Set product was the 24-pack Demo Pack from December 1998, released a month before the 1st edition Base Set, which contained Shadowless cards as well.
Greetz,
Quuador
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Is this itteration of the 1st Edition symbol unique to Pokemon? Did WOTC use it for other products too?
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Super interesting. Love seeing new stuff like this.
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Thick being “superior” to thin is one of those things that I personally would simply chance on being true forever, because it has been the case for such a long time. One of few things I feel like I can say that about.
There would have to be some serious, highly unlikely revelation about previously unknown volume (not merely a slight difference) to change that. Therefore, I wouldn’t bother.
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I’ve just taken a sample scroll through eBay (maybe a couple hundred listings or so, so not extensive but not cursory either).
To me, it does appear that the 1st edition stamps can range across three degrees of ‘thickness’ when looking at the “1” on Base Machamps.
Further, I wonder if it’s to do with regional printing rather than only time period.
For instance, to my eye these US-listed Unlimited Base Machamps have your classic thin stamps:
However, this UK/Europe-listed Unlimited Base Machamp has what I consider to be a thicker (but not what I would argue constitutes the ‘classic’ “thick”) stamp:
Instead of being a traditional thick stamp, it’s very similar to these German 1st Edition Base Holos:
By comparison then, they appear to be not as thin as the traditional thin stamps, but are not as thick as the traditional thick stamps - like these US-listed 1st Edition Base Holos and Non-Holos:
Interestingly, these UK-listed 1st Edition (Shadowless/English) Base Holos appear to follow the ‘middle thickness’ stamps of the UK/Europe listings above - they are not classic thin stamps but neither are they traditional thick stamps either:
Finally, as already pointed out, Shadowless Base Machamps come with both the traditional thick stamps:
…and thin stamps:
Both of the above are US listings. I struggled to find many UK/Europe listings for Shadowless Base Machamps to compare against - this one appears to be on the thin stamp side although, again, the ‘size’ of the “1” (coming close to the boundaries of the circle) suggest it’s not your classic example of a thin stamp.
In summary, to my eye there appear to be three degrees of thickness, and it may be argued that the region is playing a part in this. A major hurdle to this, of course, is a dependency on the listing location equating with the printing/distribution location which may be unreliable.
Of course, I may also simply be over-examining and/or assessing too small a sample, but what are your thoughts?
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Personally I collect both and value both roughly the same. I think the thick stamp might be a little more desirable in some ways but I feel it’s more psychological than anything else. I still see them as 1st Edition Base no matter what and that’s all that matters to me as a collector.
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I believe the foreign cards are still thin stamps but it’s just really hard to gauge the size differences through photos. In the past I must have thought I saw a thick stamp unl machamp but it just appeared that way with a photo. BGS has graded several “thick stamp” unlimited base machamps but they all seem to be mislabeled. At least the photos of ones I could scrounge up were thin stamps.
Edit: I just realized CGC mislabeled the German magneton as an English base card.
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I usually use the width of the “1” to determine if it’s thick/thin. And when in doubt compare it to any 1st edition WOTC card other than base set.
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Yes, it does feel less clear cut than I initially imagined! I, too, was going off the “1” thickness and should probably look into the “D” indicator too.
But staying with the 1s for a moment, hopefully the below captures what I was trying to convey with my longer post earlier - albeit my eyes are now finding four degrees of thickness (with the 1s):
Thick stamp on a true 1st Ed./Shadowless Base Machamp:
imgur.com/a/ELcO7xq
Not thick but not quite thin (‘middle thickness’ or ‘thiddle’?!) stamp on an Unlimited Base Machamp:
imgur.com/a/KqlrFzi
Thinner (thin?) stamp on an Unlimited Base Machamp:
imgur.com/a/y83dWNe
Thinner still (though still thin?) stamp on a Base 2000/“4th” (8th) Print Machamp:
imgur.com/a/1vo71vB
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I can mostly the see differences between your examples, but would probably just classify the first example as thick and all the others as thin.
Thiddle stamp Machamp, I like it. It has a ring to it.