PSA recently published a video on what is a declared value, which should clear up to many what most of us already knew.
Whilst going through their videos, I noticed Joe Orlando featuring in one discussing whether you should buy the card or the holder (which is really just the grade).
Joe’s answer didn’t surprise me, because it’s what all of our experienced members say;
So what are your thoughts?
Interesting quote from Joe, which is absolutely true. “Not all 7’s look the same”, I guess this can apply to every grade, even the 10!
Wow I am actually suprised. Very candid answer and he had every opportunity to push his product even harder. I think his answer was spoken like a true collector and I have been saying for years to “buy the card not the grade” of course get the best you can within your budget but sometimes it isn’t always about the grade. That philosophy serves me well when chasing down high end cards. Now I’m sure someone who collects set cards where print runs are higher and the difference between an 8 and a 10 isn’t a few thousand bucks may have a different opinion.
Like he said, personal satisfaction. If you are happy with your card and collection, that is all that matters.
Interesting listen @ozenigma. Surprising in a way to me to hear him pushing buying of the card not the “holder” except for when you listen closely to exactly how he is saying it. He was always speaking about 6/7/8 range where the further down the spectrum you go the wider the variation in conditions. There are many otherwise GEM MINT cards that have only a slight corner issue (Masaki promos) that reside in a 6 case. If you look at a generally worn PSA 6 though you’re talking a ton of edge wear, possibly very poor centering, holo scratches etc. He even went on to mention a situation in which someone may be after a PSA 6 on a card (something Pokemon collectors thus far have a hard time understanding overall) but someone maybe being fine settling with a PSA 2 with the eye appeal on the front of a PSA 6 and some paper loss on the back leading to the 2.
It would have surprised me very much so if he talked about buying the card not the holder when it comes to 9/10 grades. From what I heard (yes I listened to the whole thing) I never heard 9 or 10 mentioned at all. He doesn’t want to open that can of worms and I would never expect to hear him mention anything along the lines of weak 9/strong 9, weak 10/strong 10.
Keep in mind 10 in sports cards, especially vintage cards are near impossible. Square cuts, type of cardboard, and especially age all play a factor. Even though Pokemon is a 20+ year old hobby now, it is much much newer than say baseball cards. So when they reference 6/7/8, those are decent grades for vintage cards. We are spoiled in Pokemon because of its “newness” in compassion to when grading came along.
From personal experience, I have owned three trophy Kangaskhan cards. A PSA 10, PSA 8 and now a PSA Authentic. The authentic is by far the worst of the lot grade wise, likely a solid 3 candidate at best. That being said, I find myself liking them all equally. What is more, I am beginning to like the authentic the best because by selling/trading the other two, I was able to acquire other cards and still buy another Kangaskhan copy for myself.
Like it was said in the video I am willing to accept a lower grade if it has eye appeal. However, it must meet my personal conditions:
1.)No Fading
2.)No creases through the entirety of the card, length or width wise.
3.)No pieces torn off
4.)Must not be altered in any way.
After that that, critical thinking comes in and you make an informed decision to buy or pass on the card. Not all grades and cards are equal. I think too many collectors see the number at the top and click buy without truly inspecting the card for themselves.
If you stop limiting yourself to one or two grades, you open up more opportunity. Just like anything else in life, the more opportunities you create for yourself, the more successful you are likely to be.
Nice post oz! Joe is such a chill rational guy. I spoke with him a few times and he comes off humble with nothing to prove. He is all about people appreciating their hobbies.
@gottaketchumall the weak 9 strong 10 debate is only a modern dilemma. The strong/weak debate is only relevant when both 9/10 are viable options; typically when there is enough quantity. When you look at something like mantle, the 9-10 echelon is museum level. The mantle 9-10 are so in the clouds that owning the card with either grade is beyond optimal. The closest parallel we have are the original trophy cards. If someone today doesn’t buy an original trophy because it wouldn’t be a strong 9, they will most likely never own the card at all.
Definitely a valid and understood point. However I think modern is quite a large portion of their submissions overall these days and Pokemon makes up a fair bit of those submissions. Obviously given the board we are on all of our discussions are extremely Poke-centric as they should be. I guess I was just trying to illustrate the vast difference between what he is saying in his video vs. what is occasionally discussed here as “buying the card not the grade (slab)”. It is two different things entirely as you mention.
The title of this thread in the context of being posted on this board I just wanted to call out as I imagine it is likely many will comment without watching the video at all. Most of the reason I watched it is due to the sheer shock value of him seemingly (from the title) talking about something we see here as the negative issues revolving around the whole weak/strong 9/10 dilemmas.
Speaking of that I have a PSA 10 1st edition Dragonite being forced back on me as we speak because the buyer deemed it a “weak 10” in their eyes and that was enough for eBay to approve an INAD return.
Really interesting listen sounds like a genuine guy I agree with him where possible buy the card not the grade, but this is obviously much easier to do in person.
What I think is difficult sometimes with this is that when buying online it’s not always possible to get high quality images of a card to fully understand the imperfections or wear/damage on a card.
Either the seller doesn’t want/have time to upload multiple high quality images of the back and front of the card (fair enough) or they have a potato camera.And even with good quality pictures there’s things that cannot be picked up that may be seen with the naked eye.
Obviously you could choose not to buy the card in question and look for another, however if it’s a card that doesn’t appear on the market often and you still want the card they are selling you are relying on the Psa grade as a set standard for the card you are buying. In this scenario as the buyer you need to be aware of the parameters and the variances that can come with the grade, this comes with experience. As already mentioned he points out not every 7 grade will look the same as another 7 for example.
Buy the card, afford the grade.
We’re at the point in Pokemon now that some 9s (even a few 8s) are unaffordable to most people. I agree that we have been spoiled and generally have had really high standards in this hobby. In 2018 a lot of us may find that we can’t get what we want in PSA 9 or 10 or whatever.
Really well spoken words. I couldn’t agree more. Going by this philosophy I managed to cop a 1st Edition Charizard while keeping all of my hard earned skrilla.
I agree with him where possible buy the card not the grade, but this is obviously much easier to do in person.