QotD: What are your thoughts on “restoring” pokemon cards?

[lyleberr]

Welcome to the next Question of the Day!

The Question of the Day is a way to facilitate community discussion to help members ponder the unanswered questions of the world that are somehow relating to the hobby. Questions are many times open ended and up to interpretation. Feel free to post your thoughts in as much or as little detail as you’d like.

Helpful Considerations may or may not help some people focus their answer, these are blurred to not bother those who have their own ideas.

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Today’s Question:
QotD: What are your thoughts on “restoring” pokemon cards?

Helpful Considerations: Logical in the hobby? Ruining cards? Clearly labelled as restored? Does polishing count?

[c0ll3ct0r]

[joponnes]

[caughtatpoint]

I’m against it, and I don’t like the idea of cards I’m buying having been altered in some way for monetary gain.

Truthfully I think part of it is that I don’t like the idea that some greedy flipper is extracting extra value from a pure, tru collector like myself. I’m exaggerating to make the point but hopefully the idea comes across.

As for the ‘it’s fine if it’s disclosed’ argument, I remember people saying the same thing about weighing packs. You can’t ensure it will be disclosed by each subsequent seller, so now we’re at a point where you just assume packs are light. While I don’t believe (/hope) we’ll get to a point where you assume cards have been ‘restored’, I do worry about how widespread it will become.

The harsh reality is that it’s already pretty widely accepted. I see people openly talk about sending their card for ‘professional restoration’ (to some some random guy on instagram) and I feel like I barely see people speak against it.

I’m very aware this is an increasingly unpopular opinion in the hobby in general.

[Taigataipan]

I have zero interest to be associated with people who do it.

[MidiBitty]

The short answer for me is no.

There are a few I guess ‘degrees’ of restoration that I would never consider condoning, but I will admit there have been one or two times where an older card of mine is in a condition that makes me pause and go ‘I wonder if there’s someway to make this better?’, For example, I have an Skyridge Raichu holo with a beautiful swirl that unfortunately has some slight curling? curving? (not sure what the best word to describe it would be) and I’ve wondered if putting it in a penny sleeve and then applying some sort of pressure to it would help resolve it, but I’m too scared of potentially making it worse.

[decoypalmette]

Disgusting. It’s a scam a plain and simple, but even ignoring that, I don’t want shitty chemicals near my cards, since I don’t know the potential long term effects of Kurt’s bath water and I don’t know if this shit evaporates and melts adjacent cards.

I just want cards to collect, and if I’m buying poor or LP cards I have the right to not engage in this “find the circular smears or the polish traces” game. Like we always used to. But I guess what truly matters for these people is only the quick flip and scoring a +1 PSA grade on a billion printed Jungle holo.

[hian_43]

It’s an interesting topic because in the fine art world it’s widely acceptable to have pieces heavily restored with conservators sometimes even filling in large areas with their own restoration painting. Maybe that’s because they’re unique pieces or maybe it’s just down to trends within individual hobbies.

Personally I’d rather restoration didn’t become a common thing with Pokemon cards but I wouldn’t be surprised if it became more acceptable over time. It would definitely raise some interesting questions about the value of conditionally scarce cards so I’d expect a lot of push back from people more established within the hobby.

[Nightvulture]

grading is a s***. Cards are for playing. I have a bunch of damaged foils I wouldn’t hesitate to polish up to look nice in a deck. If the cards are anything other then already heavily worn or damaged, i wouldnt mess with them.

[emolga_pachirisu]

It’s now unavoidable i think and card restoration will only take more ground.

I do not feel concerned by it because i only collect 10 and i’ve never heard of restoration converting a grade 9 to a grade 10, it seems to concerns lower grade like a 3 becoming a 5 or 6 or a 6 jumping to 7. If anything it reinforces my belief that it doesn’t make sense to collect graded cards below 9. Just buy a perfect card or otherwise get a binder copy of it and then it doesn’t matter if it’s been a bit “improved”. It’s just mass produced cardboard, not like a Rembrandt or something, there’s nothing sacred inherent to a pokemon card, because it is not the produce of human sweat and blood.

[lyleberr]

What about the restoration style of humidity adjustments, smoothing foils, and repressing? No chemicals used.

[kamon]

I guess it depends on what we lump into restoring. I’ve had cards with little smudges from handling or specks of dirt or whatever that I’ve managed to remove with a small dab of water and a tissue. Is that considered restoring? Not sure. What about a card that’s curled due to humidity and flattening it out with a book? People have done that for decades and I don’t ever recall the community being in an uproar over that.

Personally I wouldn’t put the above into the same category of polishing, removing layers, adding layers, wax, fillers, painting. etc. It becomes too much for me at that point. Trimming is especially dangerous.

[lyleberr]

Its open to interpretation but restoring i would consider is to take a poor condition and bringing up to a better condition through a more extensive process than a wipedown or anything nonintrussive like fighting a natural curve with a book.

[decoypalmette]

If it’s truly a “mechanical” restoration I might be more tolerant. However, I’ve watched Kurt & friends content and they’re still using a series of questionable procedures even in these cases.

For example after the sauna (they call it the Humidor), just before pressing, they will still spray Kurt juice on the card to “make the plastic layers more malleable”. And keep it there, marinating for several hours.

Another shit is the “hot pen trick” used to smooth creases, which isn’t a chemical procedure but is deceiving. Usually they still like to run a sauna+juice cycle before, though.

[ballahb]

[Epyon]

If the card is your property you can do whatever you want with it.

HOWEVER

If you go onto sell, trade, or giveaway said card it is absolutely imperative to disclose what has been done to the card.

The reason being is that the condition of a card results in a higher monetary value.

The better the condition the higher the value.

If someone is altering a cards condition through a repair or restoration process, its actually not restoring anything.

What its more accurately doing is masking, concealing, or hiding the damage from detection.

If you were to examine the card via x-rays and other methods, you would be able to determine there is infact structural damage to the integrity of the card board and its just been low heat soldering penned / ironed out.

So if someone is masking, concealing, or otherwise hiding the true condition of a card for a higher monetary gain. This is a form of deciet, which is a lie, and because there is money involved its also fraudulent.

The same could be said for surface gels, ointment, and creams. The micro surface flaws are still there, they are just being masked with a filler, which is a substance not original to the card.

By most grading standards this is considered an alteration. Thus the card would be designated “Authentic but Altered” basically making its value zero.

The issue is the grading companies dont have a 100% fool proof process of finding these, and people exploit that, despite it being in the terms of service.

If you aren’t disclosing the alterations to the card, people are likely going to buy it on a false pretense that its entirely all original and that no changes or additions have been made, wether you call those alterations “restoring”, “repairing”, or anything else with a more pleasant ring to it. The end result is someone paying more money on a false pretense because they were decieved into believing the card was entirely all original. (Again not disclosing the changes, is deciet, which is a form of lying)

Keep in mind even collector cars MUST disclose if its all original or a restoration parts. (People often make this comparison to car restorations, but leave out how it still impacts values and collector interest).

[alleybro]

I am looking at a new purchase psa 9 with a new cert and it looks clean as heck, but with all this card restoration being so popular I worry with new cert cards being restored and what may happen to them years down the road with all the chemicals that were applied to them for hiding there true grades..

[RabidSquirtle]

It’s altering the original form of the card, your adding materials that weren’t originally there and if you do it to sell said cards without informing the other party what you did to the card I personally see it as fraud

[smpratte]

When art, or other collectibles are used to justify additives on cards, there are many differences. For artwork, you are dealing with 1 of 1 items that carry historical significance. Even if you remove that aspect, the restorations are typically disclosed. Art restoration is an actual study. Terms are used to distinguish between unrestored mint vs restored mint. None of that is happening with pokemon cards.

If the process for pokemon cards was actually the same as art, I think there would be much less contention. The distinction of non-additive restoration is more nuanced, but in both cases, disclosure eliminates contention.

[rapidash]

I thought about this too, I think the difference with art restoration is that it’s typically done in a way that’s documented and completely reversible, not secretly with the intent to add value. Paintings are typically one of a kind as well.

Restoration wasn’t a big thing the last time I was actively collecting (I took over a year off social media) so it’s disappointing to see this is widespread now.