Please clarify.
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I see some flaws in your argument Gary. With this logic, PSA’s review service is also fundamentally flawed because if a card gets a 9 at any time, that means it has some defect and therefore should never be a 10. You addressed it a little in your post, but I think the fact that PSA themselves admit that they may at times assign a grade that is too harsh is something to be considered. They do upgrade cards through that service, so are all reviewed cards also tainted in your view?
On the ethics of cracking and resubmitting, I’m very aware of the concerns. My personal limit is 1, if a card doesn’t get upgraded from its original grade the first time I send it in for review or crack it out of the case, then that’s it. Since the vast majority of cards I grade stay in my collection, I want cards that are legit 10s. I definitely think that excessive cracking and resubmitting is unethical and shouldn’t be done. But I see no problem with doing it once, or sending a card in for review. Either way, I only do it with cards that I really think deserve the upgrade.
Interesting to hear. Not surprising at all though. Makes me think… BGS doesn’t review their grades at all do they? I thought I heard that, but not sure now as it has been a while.
I always really liked the subgrades as far as for knowing where the grader is seeing the issues to cause the 9. On PSA 10’s the single grade looks nice and clean, sure. But I think with the subgrades it makes the 9/9.5/10 border much more well defined and I would expect cracking and re-subbing wouldn’t be nearly as successful at BGS even trying to move from a 9 to a 9.5. Sometimes you get PSA 9’s back and I am sure resubmitters find it all that much easier to crack and resubmit on “nicer 9’s” when they don’t know where or why the graders gave it a 9. So much is left to the graders feel with PSA (I presume that leads to less consistency and more likely variation across subs) not making them individually spell out the 4 subgrades and then calculate with some equation the final grade.
Actually the review can hit those cards which Scott said are inbetween grades but I personally am against the review system also…except under extreme circumstances. Too often cards are upgraded through the review because surface problems are so hard to fully detect through a case. So that 8.5 really never deserved a 9 but got it anyway. Again I don’t want a card that was upgraded whether through review or being cracked. But that’s just me. Most dont know or care.
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Bgs does review there cards, but its much harder to upgrade like you said… In regards to hitting a higher grade. BUt a 9 to a 9.5 should be a bit easier then a 9 to a 10 at psa… But going a full grade would be next to impossible… Like a 9 to a 10 at bgs on a review aint gonna happen.
Someone a little bit ago on instagram got a 9.5 on his 1st ed shadowless charizard, but sent it for review and 2 of the subgrades got upgraded. IT was then purchased for about 9kusd. Ide say it would cross over to a psa 10 after a review or 2. As someone with a 9.5 1st ed shadowless raichu sent in for review 3 times or 4 times to psa and it was granted the 10 with equalish subgrades.
Just finished reading this entire thread. The responses do not surprise me. Good points Gary, to bad not everyone thinks like you. Cracking a card and resubmitting until content is a very naive route to take. I don’t grade cards but I have common sense. I have cards with obvious flaws it would be insanity if I were to pretend they’re not there when obviously–they’re there! But that’s just me. You can lie to me but do not lie to your self, recognize what is obviously there.
PSA is probably like:
“hey, Jim it’s this card again, I recognize the edges. Fifth time and counting…”
“Geez, just give it a ten, joe its only a Pokémon card”
Sender:
“Smiles like a dumbass(subconsciously knows it doesn’t deserve it but is to self centered to care)”
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Just to show how anti crack or review I am last week I listed a BGS 9 1st Ed Base Charizard with subgrades of 9.5 9.5 9 9. It’s just .5 away from being a $10,000.00 card. Still, even if Becketts does reviews, I won’t do it. But I did list it at 3290.00 with no offer cause it’s a strong 9. There’s other BGS 9s with subgrades of 8.5 9 9 9 so I figure mine is worth more.
What about reviewing PSA 10 looking to score BGS 10?
I’ll crack my Chinese charizards out if they deserve a 9 and get less than that. Repeatedly cracking for 10s though - nah, not worth the hassle when personally I don’t see much of a difference between them.
Total bullshit statement.
I send in cards to PSA mainly to sell them off and take the profit. On those cards I want 9 and 10’s. But there are plenty of collectors and people out there that are happy to settle with a 7 or 8. Of course, everybody would like to a full PSA 10 Base Set 1st Edition set. It’s a nice collection and nice investment. But looking at the hobby as just a pure investment results in people cracking and resubmitting over and over. Keeps good cards out of rotation, increases prices on cards. Because, what you gonna do when this Charizard finally hits PSA 9/10 but after 12 submissions? You’re 120 US$ in and the card totally lost it’s “profit margin” and it’s value has been wasted on resubmitting.
That you only care for PSA9 and 10, doesn’t mean a collector with a less deep pocket doesn’t care. He or she might be very happy to take your PSA7 or 8 Venusaur off you for decent money and put in their own binder, instead of looking the card up on PSA to see there are 500 out there while they’re not.
I recently send in my childhood Charizard from Base. It got a PSA 7. I am very happy with it. It was sitting in a penny sleeve in a binder for many years. Nostalgic value. PSA 7 is enough. I would love to have seen it getting a 9 or 10. But do I gonna crack it and resubmit for a chance on a 8 and risk getting a 6? I can set a minimum grade on 7 again, but if the grader think it’s a 6, I get a single card back without the old PSA casing. Only losses here.
My example was the newer full art cards though. Maybe you get some 8s and resell them just above a NM one on TCGPlayer, but I cannot see a single person who wants to collect PSA full arts buying sub-8s. You can buy the packs on shelves today and the singles are in stock online at NM-M by the hundreds.
That being said, you’re right about sentimental items; that should have been in there with high dollar items. If you’re grading a sentimental card though, that’s only value for you. Your first ever Dark Weezing holo (for example) from the theme deck from when you were a kid might have sentimental value to you, but if you can find anyone paying more than $5 for a PSA 6, I’d be impressed.
There are obviously some cards that people will buy in the 7-8 range or even lower. However, look at the 1st Edition WotC holos now. The majority of them that aren’t the more popular Pokémon are very expensive in 10, relatively expensive in 9, and on par with an ungraded example at 8. I have a Skarmory Neo Genesis off at PSA right now. If it’s a 10, I can compete with the ~$250 eBay listings. If it’s a 9, I’m in the 40s range. 8? Might as well keep it unless I can find someone willing to pay $15, which is an overall loss for me.
The population of sub-9 cards is a rather niche market that requires very specific buyers COMPARED TO the conventional 9 and 10 collectors. That’s what I was trying to convey.
At the end of the day, if you personally feel that a card had been mis-graded, then the only option is to crack it open and then send for a re-grade, as I am sure it’s a lot less hassle than opening some kind of dispute with the graders.
I believe there are two different views upon this, and as said above already - one is for a “virtual” grade to make yourself feel better, if collecting for yourself and aiming for all 10’s.
But really, if the card isn’t looking as minty as you know it should be - then why bother, as you’re only lying to yourself - and if you ever decide to sell in the future, you’re going to have to be the one to explain all the known issues to potential buyers.
If grading for a business, or to sell on…well, shame on you if you are trying to make something seem what it’s not.
You’re setting yourself up for a fall - and you’ll end up with a dispute/paypal claim on your hands.
What is reasonable tho, if you had a card that was mistakenly graded - with a wild difference.
For example, a 9 or 10 that ended up a 5. That would have to be my only reasoning for cracking a case open for a business.
Just my opinion, but no point showing off a 10 when clearly, it’s not.
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