Pokemon Card Prototype Discussion Thread

The why now is the most interesting to me. Why not drip these out over the last 10 years like they have with the extra trophy and prize cards we’ve seen?

The intent of the parties selling these is not that of a collectors eye, for whatever reasoning I wont speculate as that could be a list 10 feet tall. I fall into the same boat as you. I like them, I want them but its something that needs to play out over years to come. The cat is out of the bag and the hobby is rightfully is left with their hands up in the air confused. That is damage that will take years and years to heal unfortunately.

34 Likes

If there is a legal limitation that prevents them from being forthcoming with even providing a bare minimum of information about timelines or other proofs to the public then why authenticate in the first place? Its not the first time they would have denied cards for not falling in their narrow window of what can be graded/authenticated.

Sadly this only makes their business look worse to many, especially those who may have things that dont fall into normal card history but dont want to deal with their questionable services that seem like they have different tiers of acceptance.

11 Likes

CGC excels in authenticating the Protostoises and Disco Charizards of the TCG world. Cards that have been questioned by the community but can be subjected to highly technical analysis and proven to be manufactured with the same methods and materials of authentic cards. Their articles on these cards were highly informative. While I had been skeptical of these cards, their authentication and public release of information convinced me that they were legitimate test prints.

The issue with all of these prototypes is that they aren’t manufactured in a manner even approaching systematic or traditional production, which means they’re outside of the area in which CGC has proven their competence and expertise. To the best of my knowledge they’re just printed on paper and glued to cardstock or something. I don’t need to go in-depth about how this type of production is much easier to fake than the production of standard trading cards.

I will stray into CGC criticism here because it appears they have strayed away from their original authentication principles for error and test print cards. There’s an ever-expanding set of cards that they will authenticate and grade and an ever-expanding definition of what an “authentic” card actually is.

With these cards, the only thing that makes them “authentic” in the broadest interpretation of the phrase is their provenance. Who made them, when did they make them, and how were they used. The implication has always been that the only provenance needed is that the cards come from Akabane, who could have only obtained them legitimately. However, now that we know that’s not the case (and even worse, the cards come from someone who is pretending to be Akabane in order to establish false provenance) we now have zero publicly available proof of their “authenticity.”

People are supposed to take the word of CGC that these are authentic, relying on hypothesized secret documentation that proves their authenticity that somehow can’t be released, described, or alluded to in any way. This is the complete opposite of how CGC originally built their test print authentication practices.

I’ll refrain from criticizing CGC too heavily simply because we don’t have any more information. However, I do think that serious questions need to be asked about how CGC and the community at large is defining “authentic.” Are the “Jamboree playtest” cards now authentic test prints which CGC will authenticate?

39 Likes

I agree with all of your points, but I wanted to make a comment here.

CGC has previously authenticated and graded prototype MTG cards that are no different than paper. They couldn’t use technology to ascertain their authenticity. But, to my knowledge, they worked with original playtesters (likely Joel Mick of Ancestral MTG; perhaps even Richard Garfield, creator of MTG as well) and leaders in the field to confirm their authenticity and origin.

I hope that they did the same with these Pokemon prototypes, but we may never know.

Here’s more information about the MTG playtest cards by Ancestral MTG and CGC.

https://www.cgccards.com/news/article/8558/cgc-trading-cards-early-magic/

14 Likes

This is the correct stance to take but ill approach it from a different POV.

Essentially, the provenance they have is a form of appeal to authority. We know Akabane can and has vouched for some but this is because we trust him as an authority on the matter.

This works for now but because of the issue you raised (that these are ostensibly beyond scientific forms of authentication like benchmarking) this isnt a permanent solution because Akabane will one day be dead (like all of us here). What youd really need is technical ways and measurable things that make them authentic in comparison to others.

XRF is not one of these technical ways and i want to caution this approach as a single source of measurable authenticity… XRF proves similarity or exactness that might be spurious. Similarity isnt authenticity. It might indicate authenticity but this is complicated by XRFs suitability as a test in TCG authentication.

Generally speaking, youd want a confluence of factors that strongly suggest authenticity. Maybe authenticity beyond a reasonable doubt.

When Akabane is gone and other cards come in, the real question is how authenticity is going to be determined. There are some ways to do this but ultimately it might be best to build these metrics now with the help of the man who can ostensibly tell the difference.

10 Likes

I dislike the “trust me bro” nature of the these cards as well.

At the same time I speculate that another reason for CGC to not release an article about the prototypes with data and metrics is because the production of these cards (paper glued on card stock) is easily replicated. If CGC were to release metrics surrounding rosette, dot matrixes, paper type and thickness etc. then bad actors could easily create indistinguishable replicas.

I know a few members in the community who have created replicas for their personal collection. Which is fine, but a historically bad actor like Xiao could abuse such information, create his own and submit them to CGC.

22 Likes

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_YAZC5xPIE/?igsh=MTRrZmpucWNjeno3Zw==

Obviously they have some money at stake but just found it interesting

7 Likes

it is weird that the way these are being sold is the most unoptimal way ever… if you assume these are real and one person owns them all, logically the best way to optimize the amount of $$$ u get is to sell like 1 every 1-2 months or something and no even reveal any of the others

9 Likes

The owner may have hundreds (even thousands) of them and would rather less cash than trickle of income every few months.

Anyway i think theyre going to best way, a few at different auction houses.

8 Likes

What if the seller needs to get rid of it all due to terminal health concerns. Just never know.

10 Likes

Optimal is based on the conditions. If you had all the copies it would be optimal to release them slowly. But what if there were many sets, held by different parties and one of the parties had a history of counterfeiting?

Perhaps then you would want to sell quickly

15 Likes

ALTxyz Official Cards just listed 152 beta playtest cards and 4 alpha playtest cards. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that ALTxyz is owned by wealthy sports card collectors and is housed in the U.S.

https://www.ebay.com/str/mmstoreandmore

https://app.alt.xyz

19 Likes

Wow. listing them before the auction on the other ones close is wild as it sets a ceiling suddenly… after a second look. Who priced these? They are so arbitrary and so varied?

And you are correct. Raised 100 mill and started within the last 5 years.

8 Likes

I don’t care for Goldin’s wording here. Saying it’s the only one in the census reported can be interpreted as it’s the only one in existence, but I guess it could be the only “9.5”. And maybe there’s multiple submitters but again, just more shadiness. Altxyz has one right up after coincidentally


8 Likes

Looking at all these Alpha and Beta Playtest cards, I still don’t understand where Beta Chansey fits into this timeline of prototypes. Beta Chansey doesn’t look anything like these cards.

29 Likes

I mean isn’t beta Chansey just a sketch of what the card would be while these are something that would be assembled later? Beta Chansey being hand drawn by Ooyama is why Pokemon company is proud to show it off. These were apparently never meant to be seen and partly why who ever is bringing them to market is doing so so haphazardly and without transparency.

6 Likes

@neos has been updating (I think) a rough timeline of what is believed to be the order of creation of these. I still dont fully understand this personally and there has to be large pieces of the puzzle still missing but these help me.

26 Likes

Gotta love how the kangaskhan is listed the highest because they think its somehow associated with the trophy kangaskhan. :brain:

Someone should let this guy know he is sitting on gold! :pikalaugh:

34 Likes

Nothing about these playtest cards and prototypes sits right with me. Full-on tinfoil hat mode I know, but I’m convinced CGC is in cahoots with whoever is trying to shill the provenance of these cards, to gain more exposure and ‘provenance’ for themselves as a grading company. Just as I’m convinced they were with the Prerelease Raichu situation. Ever since they astroturfed E4 they’ve been on the shady radar. Shadar.

23 Likes

that ebay store is just what their cosigners list from their website if they also want to sell on ebay.

i thought alt was what eventually came out of that whole liquid marketplace thing

6 Likes