Is it actually a case of people not putting money back into the hobby, or is it more a case of just more people are grading cards for themselves or have access to grading services than before, where it was more or less a select few people doing it previously? I’ve seen that said a few times on here but I find it difficult to find evidence for it, or to be able to quantify it. PSA grading has become much more publicised and accessible, even since I returned to collecting just a year ago. Fourthstar is right I think when he puts it simply saying Supply has gone up but demand hasn’t really. Wasn’t it just inevitable? @hisoka107
Yes, the main variable are people grading cards to sell and not buying graded cards. The amount of people grading has definitely increased overall, but more specifically, the amount of people who are grading to make quick money have exponentially grown.
Ultimately the ones complaining are mostly the problem. They have no identity. A collector is not that concerned with the market, and a businessman understands the reality of a market.
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But how can we truly quantify that @smpratte? Let’s say for arguments sake the number of people grading increased, but, their buying/selling/keeping/grading ratio’s all were identical to the status quo, e.g. people like yourself. Wouldn’t this still ultimately end up in an overall increase in market supply (i.e. number of surplus cards from you guys still goes up regardless because your numbers have increased) and an inveitable decrease in value?
I’m not arguing against what you’re saying, I’m sure what @hisoka107 and yourself are saying has gone on too and no doubt contributed their part, but wasn’t it always going to be inevitable anyway even if the newer guys had similar practices?
I have had 451 cards graded by PSA. In most cases I will only send a card if I think it will get a 9 or a 10, and as for new Japanese release I only send if I think it will 10.
238 PSA 10
187 PSA 9
That is a 94% ‘success’ rate, with 52% PSA 10 rate. Even taking out my new Japanese set cards which are in most cases a guaranteed 10, it comes down to a 78% ‘success’ rate. Still pretty happy with that figure.
Edit: Sorry, was unaware this discussion had moved on from ‘pre-grade’ statistics.
That is a very nice figure you have there, milhouse.
The same way the IRS makes the distinction between a hobby and a business: how many cards are you keeping vs selling.
If you are selling more than you are keeping, are you paying taxes? Doubtful. Most guys who are piggybacking and/or mimicking the actual businesses in the hobby are upset because they are not doing either properly: collecting or being a business.
Actual collectors simply value the cards. I wouldn’t be able to part with the binder of cards I have amassed over the passed decade + the originals from when I was a kid. It is literally pointless to put a number on them. That is actual collecting.
The frustration ultimately stems from not having a committed identity. There is nothing wrong with selling on the side to bolster your collection, but when your “collection” cards are flying through your hands as well, stop pretending.
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@xuzu we all understand free market and prices reflect that. We may not be able to quantity because who knows who really collects and who is using it as guise to get comfortable with people for knowledge and access to sources. What myself, smpratte and others have noticed is ebay sellers,yotube, instagram and other Internet sources who didn’t have any interest in pokemon suddenly grade. By observation we notice thesee new people only talk about the value of cards and offer to sell it more than they do about collecting. Sellit on ebay was a jewelry seller, PSA graded pokemon on yotube is in the realtor market is betting on pokemon as an investment. I can try to dig up more examples but I think the majority here are in agreement that at least part of the increase in supply has to do with people joining to cash in on the market.
Objectively there’s Nothing wrong with people joining in the market to make money. Personally I don’t like that people are wearing the collectors badge but are only interested selling.
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Perhaps I should clarify my position more clearly, as it seems to be widely misinterpreted.
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I grade cards for my personal collection. Any doubts about this should be allayed by my collection thread. I could post a ink to my eBay page, but I don’t want to be seen as selling. My collection is over 120 PSA graded cards and I am currently selling 7 on eBay.
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My OP was to ask for input and opinions on the increase in PSA grading and subsequent decrease in graded card prices, not to complain about current prices. I in fact expressly state that “I am not complaining about current prices”
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I do think it’s a little stupid that a PSA 9 English card sells for less than its ungraded value + grading fees.
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To follow up the above, I do not like losing money.
Please do not accuse me of grading cards just to sell them. I find this highly insulting. While others may not think this is a big deal, to me it seems as if you are saying I am only into the hobby for the money. This could not be less true.
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It’s a bit of a contradiction if you say that you aren’t complaining about prices and trying to make money and then say this:
in the very same post. You’re kind of doing the exact thing you say you’re not doing. There’s nothing to be gained from further discussion, clearly we disagree. If I wanted to insult you I’d insult you, that wasn’t my intention.
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“I do think it’s a little stupid that a PSA 9 English card sells for less than its ungraded value + grading fees.”
Card is still playable, Collectors don’t want new English cards in PSA 9, they want to chase a 10 or chase a raw copy that might get a 10, they can go to their local league/trade group and literally have dozens of these to see and trade, and they can go to their local store and buy a box off the shelf that can contain it. So there are a tonne of reasons why a new PSA 9 sells for less than an raw copy of the very same card.
TL;DR: New English PSA 9s are useful to nobody.
PS: Nobody should ever doubt @fourthstartcg
Don’t worry, I’ve understood your stance on it from the beginning 
I was personally add to saturation when I was trying to get my English psa 10s. Because 10s are so hard to get I purchase 2 to 3 copies of each sets cards when I help my ebay seller friend open cases. I spend 300 to 700 each time. After grading fees it’s usually 500 to 1000 spent. I sell the rest at loss but I keep the psa 10s. Even at a loss of 100 to 200 it’s worth it compared to trying to buy 1 card at the crazy 200 to 400 price people want.
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One of the reasons there’s an oversupply of graded cards particularly at the 9 grade (which contributed to the lower price) is this crazy obsession with the Gem Mint 10 grade.
Collectors would often buy raw cards or open packs and then send the cards (often multiple copies) to PSA hoping for a 10. If a 10 is achieved, the card is kept in the collection and the rest are sold. It gets worse when a 10 is missed as the collector would more likely buy more raw cards or open more pack to be graded in order to get that illusive 10 grade. I know a lot of people do this and I’m not saying that this is deplorable. I’m just pointing this out as something that contributes to the flood of graded cards being sold which then affect prices.
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Surely this is just on newer cards and not so much the older cards (eg. 99-02) cause there’s a lot of cards if be stoked on to own in a 9 haha
There are almost no exceptions to what people will purchase a second copy of to try for a higher grade.
The only exception is when a second copy literally cannot be purchased.
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Yes, this discussion is based more on the saturation of the newer set cards as they are easily attainable in mint condition. Most cards are still on the shelves in stores.
Certain collectors want the best condition for any card, but the old cards have more of a grade range as they are more difficult to achieve a mint grade.
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Send your cards in to be graded with a minimum grade of 10!
I bought 27 Mega Rayquaza Full arts.
I chose 15 of the finer looking cards and sent them in!
Out of the 15 only 5 came back as 10s
Out of the 5, 4 wrote books about the ordeal
Out of the 4, only 1 got a movie deal.
Yes It cost alot of money but i protected the market from the sheer amount of PSA 9s.
I did this because the un slabbed cards would look nicer in a binder!
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LOL! XD
Tropic thunder.
*fist bump*
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Hahaha lol I was Hoping someone got the reference!!! love that movie!
*fist bump*
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Couldn’t have said it better myself.This sums it up in my opinion. And I’m not trolling.