How to Recognize Shill Bidding on eBay

HOW TO RECOGNIZE EBAY SHILL BIDDING

Unfortunately shill bidding on eBay has become a fairly common practice in the Pokemon card hobby. I’ve made this guide explaining both the issues with shill bidding, and how to recognize it so you don’t get caught paying more for a card than you should. A quick reminder that unscrupulous activities (including shill bidding) are not condoned by this forum and members who engage in these activities will be disciplined accordingly.

WHAT IS SHILL BIDDING?

Shill bidding is very simple. A seller posts an item for auction and then bids on that item themselves in order to raise the auction price higher. Ideally, the shill bidder bids the auction up to a price that they are comfortable selling for, and then waits to see if anyone bids over that price. The auction-style listing generates a high level of interest and attention from bidders, and shill bidding guarantees that a seller doesn’t get burned by a low ending price. If the item goes for less than the seller wants (the shill bidding account wins) then the seller simply keeps the item to possibly relist at a later time.
WHY SHILL BIDDING IS BAD:

#1: Shill bidding creates artificially-inflated prices.

In a hobby where eBay sold listings are the most accessible and often best way of determining a card’s value, listings that have been shill bid artificially skew the prices of cards higher. For example, let’s take a fairly rare (yet usually available) card like a PSA 10 Charizard Gold Star (English). The generally accepted auction price range for that card is currently around $700-800 USD. If a shill bidder posts one up for auction and the auction goes for $1,300 USD, people would think that the card’s value has somehow dramatically increased. Seeing that sold listing, people may pay more for PSA 10 Charizard Gold Stars than they should. Which leads to my second point:

#2: Shill bidding creates “price bubbles.”

If shill bidding occurs (especially on multiple copies of a single card) people may believe the card is suddenly worth more when it’s really not. As such, they will pay more. However, the card’s true market value is lower. If they go to sell the item in the future, they will lose significant money as they overpaid for the card to begin with. As many collectors view Pokemon cards as an investment, this is problematic.

#3: Shill bidding goes against the spirit of an auction and is against eBay policy.

The spirit of an auction is that the item goes to the highest bidder. Shill bidding ruins this, makes it harder to find at-auction deals, and rigs the system in favor of the seller. Not to mention that shill bidding is not allowed on eBay and is grounds for suspension or removal of your eBay account.

HOW TO RECOGNIZE SHILL BIDDING:

eBay bidding histories are visible to all. If you are ever suspect of an auction’s legitimacy, you can check the bid history (accessible directly from the auction page). Shill bidding accounts often have these three characteristics:

#1: Very low feedback numbers (not required, but common).

As shill bidding accounts are created by the seller simply to place bids on their own auctions, they usually have low feedback numbers (0-10). Feedback numbers are also publicly displayed in the bid history of an auction.

#2: High percentage bid activity with one Seller.

Clicking on an individual bidder from the bid history will bring you to a summary of the member’s bidding activity over the past 30 days. At the top, there is one important metric, titled “Bid activity with this seller.” If that number is in the 90-100% range, chances are it’s a shill bidding account.

#3: Bidding on many (if not all) the seller’s auctions.

If a seller has multiple auctions up, check for the same account bidding on many of the auctions. While it’s not uncommon for people to bid on several items from one seller, shill bidding accounts often bid on anything and everything from a specific seller. Use your judgement and common sense in this case. One person bidding on 3 items from one seller probably shouldn’t raise red flags, but if they’re bidding on 20 different items, you should be suspicious.

Of course these are just general guidelines. Shill bidders aren’t stupid, so they may get accounts with high feedback numbers to bid on their auctions, or only run one or two auctions at a time and shill bid them, so it’s less obvious. The best metric of shill bidding is the percentage bid activity with the specific seller. The higher that is, the more likely it’s a shill bidding account.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Keep in mind that people who shill bid aren’t inherently terrible human beings that want to cheat you out of your money! More likely than not they just want their cards to sell for a price that they want, and are looking to get more out of their auctions. However shill bidding is not the answer to this issue.

20 Likes

Also of note is if you are an under bidder on an auction and the item sells but the seller contacts you immediately to tell you that the bidder backed out.

4 Likes

That sounds familiar for some reason… Hmmmmmmmz. Four star… Why you be so intelligiment.

Yeah happened to me as well, I was under bidder on something then the seller contacted me straight away. At first I was like oh yeah cool! But then I realized that he might have been doing the sneaky :wink:. I mean imagine if someone was outbidding you live and then 30 seconds later they have already informed the buyer that oh no sorry I can’t pay lol

3 Likes

[/i]
[/quote]

I would respectfully have to disagree with this. If one has the moral intent to do this they are indeed looking for your money although not consciously directed at any specific individual. It isnt a secret to set reserve prices or research current market values (even away from ebay) or start an auction at said wanted value. Plenty of other options. Unfortunately if one has a decent technical knowledge it is fairly easy to get around being detected and shill bidding has been around since auctions were invented.

1 Like

I would think that most that shill bid want the attention of a low price auction but have a set price in mind, not really trying to cheat you out of money just garner more bidders thus increasing the likelihood of a bid war.

I saw a post about a month ago alerting that tonsofcardsandmore shill bid on ebay, most responses said that they were a reputable retailer and that they wouldn’t do something small like that when it risks negative publicity. But when some 5-10 Neo holos of theirs went up around christmas I noticed that the majority had been bid by what Forthstartcg classified as a shill bidder. Someone with extremely low rating, very high bid history with this seller as he (shill) bid on a lot of auctions and did not win a single one of them! I’m not saying that it is certain that they are shill bidding their auctions but keep it in mind if you plan to buy from them!

[/i]
[/quote]

I would respectfully have to disagree with this. If one has the moral intent to do this they are indeed looking for your money although not consciously directed at any specific individual. It isnt a secret to set reserve prices or research current market values (even away from ebay) or start an auction at said wanted value. Plenty of other options. Unfortunately if one has a decent technical knowledge it is fairly easy to get around being detected and shill bidding has been around since auctions were invented.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree also.
Shill bidders are no better than pack weighers. They are looking for an unfair advantage in order to line their own pockets at the expense of the unwary.
I say sic Pokesyn on them. He’ll throw things at them and then burn them at the stake.

2 Likes

Lol

[/i]
[/quote]

I would respectfully have to disagree with this. If one has the moral intent to do this they are indeed looking for your money although not consciously directed at any specific individual. It isnt a secret to set reserve prices or research current market values (even away from ebay) or start an auction at said wanted value. Plenty of other options. Unfortunately if one has a decent technical knowledge it is fairly easy to get around being detected and shill bidding has been around since auctions were invented.[/quote]

I think that shill bidding doesn’t necessarily make the seller a terrible human being, like Fourthstar mentioned. However, shill bidding is illegal, so I dont blame you if you feel anyone engaging in illegal activity is terrible. I’m sure most sellers who shill bid probably don’t realize they can be thrown in jail and/or fined (besides being banned ofcourse) if caught.

2 Likes

One point I wanted to clarify, for larger retailers/sellers, a second chance offer immediately after an auction ended is not a clear cut sign of shill bidding. I typically have multiples of most items listed, and will gladly immediately second chance offer one to the second bidder.

Shill bidding is ultimately an educated guess. Even for more seasoned ebayers, it is not always cut and dry. However, when you have someone who occasionally lists a handful of items, and they conveniently always have a 100% bidder, that is pretty clear cut.

Also, people who say they use shill bidding in replacement of a reserve is absolute malarkey. The entire point of an auction is the inherent risk. If you eliminate the risk, by bidding on your own item, it is a rigged auction. I had a prerelease clefable end at $3.25, and didn’t bat an eye. That is the risk of listing in bid auction.

4 Likes

It’s a personal matter of course. If you want to believe that anyone who shill bids is a terrible person, I’m not really going to argue.

1 Like

I personally believe people who lie about it, or make up excuses are problematic. Someone may be naive and not understand what they have done. Once they are made aware, their character is illustrated in how they handle that truth.

However, People who regularly shill bid, who know what they are doing and don’t care, are scumbags.

8 Likes

Because this is not the intention of the thread, nor is external speculation helpful in a review process, I’m going to ask that @gemmintpokemon and any other involved parties continue this conversation privately with myself and @smpratte. The related posts have been moved to a thread only viewable by the administration. Thanks for the cooperation and I hope that we can get this resolved as is appropriate. :blush:

1 Like

Damn. You should told me about that auction. I would have ran it up to $3.50

3 Likes

How to recognise a seller that doesn’t use shill bidding: painfully low ending prices for their auctions. Source: me, this week :grin:

3 Likes

I shill bid that’s why my auctions always end so low. It’s proof.

Damn. Missed a chance to bargain shop.

Ha, cheeky bastard. Nah, fair prices to give everyone a chance any day. I’m just selling off all the spare things - nice to have my goals complete and share the excess so everyone can enjoy the things :slight_smile:

1 Like

I really wanted your gyarados 9 but missed the auction :slightly_frowning_face:

Well not to self promote but I’ve listed more.