Deserving of a PSA 10?

General
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I may as well chime in too.

The card was the nicest Chansey I’d ever seen which is saying a lot cause I’ve seen many and Chansey’s are a notoriously tough grader…it’s the lowest population in the set. I’d like to think that scratch on the holo was on the case cause when I sent it in, I didn’t see it. But since it’s on the card I’m surprised I missed it. Ofcourse my eyes don’t zoom way in like that picture lol.

As far as value, of the last 4 sold this was the cheapest, or tied for cheapest. Oh, plus this is a thick which I’ve only ever gad 3 of.
As with everything, ofcourse I offered to take it back because the only opinion that really matters is the buyers.

I know the picture below makes it look like the Grand Canyon but it doesn’t look like that in hand to me with these old eyes;)

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@nysyr, An 8.5 surface? No way. I think you’re giving BGS way too much credit. I’ve seen a Pristine 10 with a 10 surface grade have a slight but visible scratch on the foil and it was the first BGS card I ever looked at in person. Plus I’ve heard it from multiple people that 9.5’s often have surface scratching. That said, I own zero BGS cards.

@sgbased, PSA’s 10 range obviously allows for this despite us perfectionist collectors expecting the term gem mint to be a nearly flawless card. That Chansey is one tough card to find with no foil markings of any kind. Not a single one of my PSA 9 Shadowless Chanseys has a flawless holo and I’d be willing to bet good money that most 10’s whether it be 1st Ed or Shadowless are similar. I do understand your frustrations though. I’ve been in the same boat many times. A scratch is a scratch and you see it, I see it. It’s there. It puts us in an awkward position as buyers when we aren’t thrilled with a card we dropped serious cash on. Do we potentially ruin a relationship with a big seller because we have a higher standard or do we let it slide and accept it for what it is despite our gut telling us it should be brought up? The path of least resistance probably keeps everyone the happiest but nobody wants to feel like a sucker so maybe the seller shouldn’t use descriptors like “strong” since it’s very subjective. In this particular instance I’d say keep the card how it is, be content with it, and accept that PSA 10 has a range. This will save you from more disappointment down the road. That card is better than a 9, no doubt, and without sounding too pompous, you wouldn’t seek advice on a $500,000 car from someone who drives a $500 car so keep that in mind as more people respond.

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Holo scratches are the most subjective and missed aspect in grading. I honestly didn’t see the scratch initially on my phone until I got a computer.

Ultimately this is part of the game in chasing the “quality” of a card. The 9-10 grade has room. Other grade gaps have the .5 differential, 9-10 does not. Therefore PSA most likely won’t compensate for such a minor scratch.

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Ive purchased multiple BGS 9.5 copies of cards where the surface was graded a 9.5, and the Holo had a minor scratch on it.

So taking that into account, since people are using BGS as a reference, I have no doubt BGS would give that a 9.5 surface grade if that is the only issue on the card.

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This sounds completely pompous lol. So unless you have a certain budget then your opinion on this doesn’t matter?

I think the the ideal situation would be that PSA owns up to their mistake and compensates the difference. It’s a shame that both the buyer and seller have to grade the card themselves and make sure the PSA grade is accurate.

I bought a PSA 10 1st edition Venusaur awhile back and could see the centering was visibly off when I got it in person. I measured the the borders pixels on my computer (scanned card) and was able to determine the centering was within the PSA 10 range. I consider my card a “weaker” 10, but still believe it’s truly a 10 since I measured the centering myself. Therefore, I accepted that PSA 10 cards have a range and I didn’t try to return the card.

Your situation is a little different because you can’t personally check to see if you card is within the 10 range. It’s more subjective since scratches can be judged differently and/or missed during the grading process. I would probably send to PSA to have the card reviewed. If it comes back as a 10 again, then it might sit better with you knowing it was confirmed a second time.

Best of luck, that’s a tough situation.

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I have done a few reviews whilst getting compensation from 10’s to 6’s, 9’s to 7’s and a few others. I would never advise anyone to review a borderline card because it just isn’t gonna happen. E.g. if you think a card in a 10 case should be a 9 I’d say there’s no chance they’ll revise it especially given high values. If you think the discrepancy is 2 or more grade then I would go for it.

I currently have a gold star charizard PSA 9 out there with them that has a crease right on the foil. I bought a huge 5 figure collection and this was just a small part of it so it is no surprise to me that I missed it. I actually had it listed on eBay for some time before I ever caught it and it wasn’t even visible from the listing photos. I was looking for high end BGS 9.5 crossover candidates from my inventory and then saw it.

As far as the process… eBay sold prices are the main aspect of determining value. They may discuss the SMR price guide they have but at the time I did it with a PSA 9 base 1st charizard their pricing was way off and I was able to negotiate something more reasonable given eBay listings. Many cards aren’t even included in their price guide as well. Once negotiation was complete on both the old and new grade values they cut me a check for the difference to send back shortly after they returned the newly lower graded card.

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I think he means that one should own and/or have experience with something before offering their opinion. Spending power aside, if you’ve never held a Pristine 10 or PSA 10 or had experience with high end cards, how can you provide any meaningful insight on them?

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@charizandrew, My point was that some people wouldn’t even pay twice the PSA 9 price for a 10 in the first place but they’ll tell you all day that a 10 shouldn’t be a 10. It’s not really about the money or how much you have but I see how it could look that way when reading it.

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@jj1 @zap2 I understand your point now, makes much more sense the way you rephrased it.

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No need to send it back in. The card is a beautiful, solid 10 and it could even qualify as a BGS pristine. I was just looking at a bunch of BGS cards w/foil lines and still with a 9.5 surface grade and none of them were as nice as this card.

Especially because this card is a Base Set Chansey, if you saw this card in person there would be “WOW’s” not tears. At least if you knew anything about Base Set Chansey’s.

Still, I’d like it back and if that’s what the buyer wants then everybody is happy;)

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I think everybody understood you perfectly but some second language people might not.

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Chansey is known to have lot of foil scratching, so my best guess is that the graders might have been surprised to see a clean chansey with one/two scratch and might have given it the 10 grade. But yeah it think it should be a 9. After all, the neo set cards tend to get 8s and 9s, due to one or many scratch.

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@garyis2000 said it’s a solid 10. Case is closed.

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34

If I paid a ton of money for a card that I was told was pristine and it showed up with a scratch like that I would be disappointed.

If all of the above happened AND I was told I could send it back, no hurt feelings, and get my money back? I would do that, if I felt like I would look less at the beautiful card and more at that one tiny scratch.

It’s one thing to be told something’s in perfect condition and have it show up in not-so-perfect condition than it is to choose to buy something that you know isn’t perfect and then love it regardless. Personally I think I would choose to return it.

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If I were to send a card in an it got a PSA 10 I would be one happy boy.

I have some cards that are the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen but have a pinprick factory white spot in one corner. If I were to receive a 9 because of that I would be one sad boy.

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This kind of advice implies there is zero integrity at PSA, a dangerous line to take.

OP, if you really are this defeated on the card, review it.

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I like to live dangerously. If you or someone wanted a safer reason to support my thoughts of not reviewing a 10 that look like a 9 to you or any 1 grade differential for that matter then here it is:

According to PSA’s grading procedure THREE professionals review your card and the card is only assigned a grade if the first two agree and then the third verifies. So in attempting to review a card lower (or higher even) you are implying you know better than 3 industry leading professionals or that the 3 industry leading professionals made a mistake.

Just to reinforce my status as a dangerous individual I will say that I think the quoted box above is total bunk as some of the errors I have seen them make it is laughable to think 3 industry leading professionals could miss it. Maybe if they quoted some % that they have agreement between the first two theoretical graders could bring some perspective too though I doubt that data exists.

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GKA, all I’m inferring is that;

  1. If OP isn’t happy with thee grade, they have an avenue to take.

  2. PSA must maintain integrity, that means if a card by their standards is a 9 in a 10 case, they have to change it.

That’s all I’m saying mate.

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Hi guys

Sorry for the late reply, been busy with work and had to think hard about this. Net net I’ve decided to keep it after the following thoughts. Would also like to stress that Gary graciously offered to take it back so it’s on me to keep it.

Note that because I’ve decided to keep it, writing the below only hurts the value of my card, and I am doing this because I think it would be helpful for the efour community here when they encounter situations like this, and that everyone has taken the time to provide their thoughts

Scratches are visible, I’m inclined to think the card is a borderline PSA 10
First, the scratches are very much visible and it’s not reasonable at all to brush this off as a tiny or barely visible mark. I saw it the moment i picked it up, my friends saw it within a few seconds. Plenty visible without a zoom. For BGS 9.5 discussion; I did not buy a BGS 9.5, I bought an PSA 10 and across ALL my PSA 10 holos none had scratching like this. I saw factory lines etc but nothing this deep for sure

Here’s another picture, turns out there is more scratching at the top RHS, although those are less visible:
imgur.com/a/0lkyYoB

And in the words of Gary, for another point of reference, scratched foils are likely not common on base set holos:
www.elitefourum.com/t/mint-1st-edition-base-set-zard-send-off-result/19432/1
“I’ve examined all my PSA 10 1st Charizard’s and none have scratched foils.
I’m with the fellow who said they wouldn’t be very happy spending over 20k for a card with a scratched front.
I’d just accept the 9 and if the rest of the card is great you could call it a strong 9;)”

I’ve also owned other base set chanseys before and they didn’t have any scratches like this on their foil (they weren’t first ed however).
It likely will never be reviewed down to a 9; this is good enough to remain in a PSA 10 case
The card looks great from a distance. The card’s centering and edges are great, corners are good. Hence, I concur that it will likely never be reviewed down to a 9, although I think it could potentially get a 9 if I were to crack and resend it due to the scratching
Net-net, kept it because of the realization that, it is a pop 45 PSA 10 thick stamp Chansey with two public sales over the past two years only and three for PSA 10 Chanseys
I would have returned it for sureif this was any other 1st ed base set card, including hitmonchan. It was the realization that there’s no guarantee I would be able to get another thick stamp Chansey at a similar price - who knows what the next sale price will be for a card this scarce; hitmonchan is super volatile and Chansey will be worse given lower pop.

Fyi net of fees Gary received at the upper end relative to sellers of the two other public sales (both of which were also thick stamp, and looked good too). Gary is a kind man that has sold me cards at bargains before and I am super grateful for it, but I would like to think that he is a smart salesman too. The price was a fair/good one if this was pristine and that was his pricing intention when dealing with the efour community; just turned out that it isn’t.

This was the result of an unintentional oversight
I also want to be clear that in the end, this was a miscomm. Yes, I felt bitter because I was communicated that it was an absolute beauty and it most definitely isn’t. Would I have said no if I saw those scratches from the start? Yes, because I’ve never seen a PSA 10 holo with scratches like this before.

But after the research I’ve done net-net I would have offered 500-1000 less and move on if couldn’t agree on price. Given that the seller is Gary who has sold me cards a couple of hundred below market price before, let’s give-and-take and save the trouble because a good relationship is worth more.

After all, I still need to fly to LVS to beg him to sell me a zard :wink:

Hope my 2c helps and it isn’t my intention to offend anyone for the above post.

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Plus I’ll add that Sgp has promised to give me first crack for that thick f he decides to sell it;)

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