I can maybe understand that if a psa 10 was graded, but I own and have owned a couple psa 9s and they are just normal 9s.
Something like Masaki I get more as missing an indent could make an otherwise 6 a 9, nice!
I’d love to see a Prefable in any grade without the standard corner damage
@smpratte @pfm
It does seem tho, that if a rare card were mistakenly graded 10, that 10 would not satisfy the collector’s desire for a 10. SO there are points on both sides here, and they create a conflict of the collector soul, no?
I’m only speaking on behalf of myself
but you do have a collector’s soul, so again, there may be something inherent to many of us in what you say.
Agreed and this is why I chose some of the examples that I did with variables limited as much as possible.
The difference between copies of the 25th zard is miniscule, 40%+ of the PSA 10 pop is resubmitted 9’s, and the only thing bringing the grade down is centering which “should” be the most objective piece of the grade.
Every copy of '99 wind I’ve seen has the same kind of damage just by nature of how it was printed/distributed, but there’s still huge disparity between grades on similar copies and even regrades of the same copy. Granted, I have not seen high quality images (let alone in-person) of 2 of the 10’s, so maybe they truly are in better condition than any others. The cleanest example I’ve seen is Swolepoke’s CGC 9.5 and would say it’s graded fairly, down to the subgrade, but it would of course still sell lower than any of the 10’s regardless of what they look like if you put them on the same auction block.
We all know that the market isn’t “rational” (we’re in the business of spending obscene amounts of money on shiny cardboard, after all), and the purpose of this thread isn’t really to say what anyone should or shouldn’t do (honestly reading it back, I’m not sure what the purpose of the OP is at all). There are premiums on other things like ink dot errors that aren’t for me either, and that’s fine.
Additional edit:
I think this is getting a bit away from where I was going with the thread, though. It’s more about the divergence of condition and the grade than condition itseslf. If a Clefable that’s currently graded an 8 goes back in until it gets one of those drunk 10s, that’s very different than a legitimately pristine copy somehow appearing.
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This is a good point. I have several Base Set 2 PSA 10 holos and they are an absolute dog to grade. I would say easily on par with most Neo holos, if not worse. Finding one with a flawless holo is so rare and even though Base Set 2 isn’t exactly special among WOTC sets, I still think they’re cool to have in my collection because of the difficulty of getting one in a 10.
So, definitely some arguments that can be made with all this. I kind of like to bash on Neo Genesis Lugia being one of those cards that costs a fortune in a PSA 10 compared to a NM or PSA 9 copy and how I’d probably never drop the money on it, but I totally ‘get’ why it’s so much more expensive because of how difficult it grades and understand fully why people are willing to pay the price for it.
It is what it is.
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You can find weak 10s and strong 9s throughout the different cert series over the years, its just the inevitable subjective nature of grading.
Would I pay super huge premiums on psa10/bgs 10? Probably not anymore. After all condition rarity is subjective, people can dispute about it; it is objectively rare. I would rather pay the premium for print run rarity, as there’s no dispute about it. There are times where i paid premium for top tier condition cards (looking at you BGS 10s) and I was disappointed as it did not meet my expectations. However, I’ve never felt this way paying for actual rare cards.
As someone who isn’t currently interested in collecting trophy cards/limited distribution promos, conditional rarity becomes the chase. Yes, the difference between a 9 and 10 is minuscule at best, but there will usually be a market for low pop, vintage PSA 10s.
When it comes to premiums for 10s over 9s with set cards, I tend to stop once the 10 is more than 3x-4x the price of the 9. At that point it just doesn’t feel worth the huge premium, especially for cards/sets with huge total pops where the only distinguishing factor is how hard 10s are to achieve. Stuff like PSA 10 1st Edition Jungle Vaporeon/Snorlax and Gym Heroes Blaine’s Moltres feel like a gross over-exaggeration of conditional rarity. While they may be the hardest to grade cards in their respective sets, they are far from the rarest or scarcest cards in the hobby (their 10 pop is higher than the total pop for some later WOTC/EX chase cards) and I could never see myself paying 20x - 40x the price of their PSA 9s for one.
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Im still trying to work out exactly how i feel about graded cards. For me personally, i want my cards to be in the cleanest condition i can get because thats just who i am as a collector; i go for books im collecting with sharp corners, game cases that look as fresh as possible, etc. So, although i prefer my collection to be mint, i dont really get the excitement I’d expect to from buying slabbed cards. Not to mention, i find my personal condition rating to be much more strict than PSA. I also agree that 10s are grossly overpriced relative to 9s, especially considering how similar the actual card appears. I am beginning to feel like binders may be better for me than graded cards, but i also feel that there are some instances where keeping a mint card in a binder over a slab doesnt make sense. Idk maybe i should focus on more on grading just those cards and not worry so much about grading everything. At the same time, i want to sell to make more money for buying more cards and the best way to do that is with grading imo… it’s definitely a very strange topic to wrap my head around. It always makes me feel averse towards grading every time i see a card that doesnt match a grade (in my opinion), which is fairly often.
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Condition does matter for me but in most cases not enough to justify the difference between a 9 and a 10. I tend to aim for 7 - 10, but most of the times I aim for not-so-rare cards. One of my favourite cards for example is Octillery Neo Revelation (1st Edition).
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“Older, rarer, minter better,” Just apply the opposite. The newer, the more common, the more easily mint, the worse for conditional grading.
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I don’t collect 10 grades because they are far too expensive for minimal visual gain, imo. I’m not willing to spend 10x on a card that can be a coin toss and look virtually the same. Yes there is subjectivity to it and people can continue to resubmit cards to get a 10, but it’s not for me. The risk of cracking slabs multiple times is too high and the repeated practice will just continue to wear down the card. There are some cards that don’t deserve a 10, and will never receive a 10.
I would be more worried about it if people were cracking 5s and resubmitting to get 10s, but that is very rare (and most likely due to an initial error). I think of grading as a “range”. Cards in the 9-10 range are pretty close, cards in the 7-8 range are pretty close, etc. There are obviously outliers to this, but for the most part, the numbers are relatively close. I’ve found that 9s are a good middle-ground between very pleasing to the eye, and don’t set your wallet on fire (relative to 10s at least).
Personally I am a HUGE fan of consistency in my collection. With regards to my Oddish collection, I exclusively collect CGC 9s with sub-grades. I think it looks fantastic having them all have the same grade, and it also adds to the challenge. Since barely anyone collects Oddish most of the cards are never even graded, which adds a challenge to my collection. In order to complete my collection, I’ll most likely have to submit 90% of the cards myself, but I enjoy it because it’s a unique completion goal that I have. I’m willing to submit every Oddish card on the planet until I get a 9 with subgrades. I will die on this hill, and it will take years to complete my collection, but it makes it that much more satisfying when it’s complete.
When it comes to my error collection, I collect all grades and my only goal is to have them in CGC slabs for consistency. My reasoning is that most errors are completely unobtainable in 9s, and a lot of the errors I possess are one of a kind. Many error cards are unique and it’s fantastic to have them in my possession at all. I do love to see an error card in a 9, though 
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I am this way too. If I want to purchase a (vintage) PSA 10, I have a very strict eye and black label-level expectations. Otherwise, I would much rather have a PSA 9.
This is a good point that I haven’t seen articulated often. Thinking about it, I only have a handful of error cards in a PSA 9. Most are PSA 8 or 7.
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kind of funny how everyone here that collects 10s is ridiculing them now
Do you have an example of who you’re referring to or is this just purposely vague?
I shouldn’t have said everyone. *Some people
I think its important to respect condition where respect is due, like hard to grade sets, and older cards where its not easy to find the cards mint, but the good thing about pokemon more-so than most collecting, theres usually a cheaper option. In doing my Tyranitar collection where i have a graded copy and a raw copy of all cards, the graded being whatever is reasonable for my budget and the raw being the absolute cheapest option regardless of condition, its amazing to see the disparity between some of these prices. In excess of 20x the price for e series for the raw played to gem mint, and for some of the ex era its even a higher multiplier. It sucks when i can buy 50 played copies of the japanese TRR tyranitar holo for the same price as one 10. I’m happy both options are still affordable though, in the higher end stuff the played copy is still super expensive and the high grade stuff is basically a pipe dream unless i want to really make some moves.
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