$900k PSA 9 Illustrator Transaction

[zards_r_us]

The illustrator is the real grail what an amazing deal!

[Kh36]

@smokemon

This was the trade:

Maybe I missed something, but how did you find out these were the cards in the trade deal?

[smokemon]

@Kh36

@smokemon

This was the trade:

Maybe I missed something, but how did you find out these were the cards in the trade deal?

On the Instagram page of the guy who received the Pikachu, he gives thanks to Hadoukenido. On his page he has a picture of the cards traded.

Just my two cents but this whole ‘transaction’ seemed kinda clickbait. It’s a trade with an estimated value of 900k, not a purchase. It’s still amazing, nonetheless.

[pichufan]

@jkanly @breakingpokemon The trade was brokered by www.instagram.com/hadoukenido and the original owner has chosen to remain anonymous. I don’t think Scott had anything to do with it?

This was an interesting trade for sure. I feel like Nido possibly got the better end of the deal, but it’s hard to say. One thing I will say is that it’s amazing how quickly real information became skewed by people reposting the story over and over again.

[pfm]

@pichufan

@jkanly @breakingpokemon The trade was with www.instagram.com/hadoukenido. I don’t think Scott had anything to do with it?

This was an interesting trade for sure. I feel like Nido possibly got the better end of the deal, but it’s hard to say. One thing I will say is that it’s amazing how quickly real information became skewed by people reposting the story over and over again.

hadoukenido brokered the trade, it was not his illustrator.

[r2d287]

@smokemon

@Kh36

Maybe I missed something, but how did you find out these were the cards in the trade deal?

On the Instagram page of the guy who received the Pikachu, he gives thanks to Hadoukenido. On his page he has a picture of the cards traded.

Just my two cents but this whole ‘transaction’ seemed kinda clickbait. It’s a trade with an estimated value of 900k, not a purchase. It’s still amazing, nonetheless.

Ehh. It’s kinda the same though. Maybe for tax reasons it didn’t make sense for either parties to make an actual transaction.

Here is my thought.

I have a 900k card. Someone trades me at a premium a bunch of cheaper cards(saving me tax on 900k instantly), that I likely will have an easier time selling for either cash, or as I want to take the cash.

As the buyer, it prevents me from liquidating cards, which would immediately trigger gains taxes. (I know. Technically this is still taxable, but you wouldn’t get caught anyway)

Either way. The seller could have easily sold those cards and paid cash. It just would have taken a few weeks, or a month.

It’s just reallocating assets.

[smokemon]

@r2d287

@smokemon

On the Instagram page of the guy who received the Pikachu, he gives thanks to Hadoukenido. On his page he has a picture of the cards traded.

Just my two cents but this whole ‘transaction’ seemed kinda clickbait. It’s a trade with an estimated value of 900k, not a purchase. It’s still amazing, nonetheless.

Ehh. It’s kinda the same though. Maybe for tax reasons it didn’t make sense for either parties to make an actual transaction.

Here is my thought.

I have a 900k card. Someone trades me at a premium a bunch of cheaper cards(saving me tax on 900k instantly), that I likely will have an easier time selling for either cash, or as I want to take the cash.

As the buyer, it prevents me from liquidating cards, which would immediately trigger gains taxes. (I know. Technically this is still taxable, but you wouldn’t get caught anyway)

Either way. The seller could have easily sold those cards and paid cash. It just would have taken a few weeks, or a month.

It’s just reallocating assets.

wut

[zorloth]

@smokemon

@r2d287

Ehh. It’s kinda the same though. Maybe for tax reasons it didn’t make sense for either parties to make an actual transaction.

Here is my thought.

I have a 900k card. Someone trades me at a premium a bunch of cheaper cards(saving me tax on 900k instantly), that I likely will have an easier time selling for either cash, or as I want to take the cash.

As the buyer, it prevents me from liquidating cards, which would immediately trigger gains taxes. (I know. Technically this is still taxable, but you wouldn’t get caught anyway)

Either way. The seller could have easily sold those cards and paid cash. It just would have taken a few weeks, or a month.

It’s just reallocating assets.

wut

He’s saying that it would be easier to avoid paying taxes on the ‘sale’ if it was instead done as a trade. If the person who owned the Illustrator originally paid, say, $100k for it, and then sold it for $900k, they would have to pay capital gains taxes on the $800k in profit they realized from the sale of that asset. But if they instead traded the Illustrator for $900k in assets that they could then separately liquidate, it would be easier to get away with paying 0 in capital gains taxes.

[EnlightenedBulbasaur]

As someone who is going to be sending the government nearly half a million dollars this year, I would understand why people would want to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

I had the chance to take substantial offers for many of my cards with cash, but I passed because I didn’t want to go down that path.

But it’s probably best not to publicly accuse people of planning to commit tax evasion.

[lp1]

@pokemon_matt

And he bought this when prices are crashing. Can you imagine how much he’d of paid if he bought at hype peak?!??111

From what I’ve seen Trophies don’t give a damn how the markets moving lol They kinda play by their own rules and don’t really go down they just move upwards steadily.

[r2d287]

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

As someone who is going to be sending the government nearly half a million dollars this year, I would understand why people would want to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

I had the chance to take substantial offers for many of my cards with cash, but I passed because I didn’t want to go down that path.

But it’s probably best not to publicly accuse people of planning to commit tax evasion.

I don’t even think an auditor would see a trade as blatant tax evasion in any stretch of the imagination. I didn’t mean to even insinuate that was the reason, I’m just pointing out one example. I’m also saying that in my eyes, that’s really a sale. Even though it’s a “trade”

How I meant to say it was.

If I don’t want to cash 900k out now. I can sell off as I need it, and pay the tax on each sale. So it lowers the hit. Better to sell one zard 1ed a year than all depending on where you live and when you bought the cards etc.

[aj84]

Charizard PSA 10 1st edition alone will be worth more if not already.

[thundermoo]

@magicrap

• Ken Sugimori signed CD Promo Charizard (Pop 1)

Pop 2

[cedar]

Nice

I try to have liquidity in my collection, so I can see the appeal to trade away an illustrator.

[pokemon_matt]

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

As someone who is going to be sending the government nearly half a million dollars this year, I would understand why people would want to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

That sounds like terrible tax management, you should really use an accountant if you haven’t already. There are far more efficient ways to manage money to bring that tax bill down. No I don’t meant illegal tax avoidance, but legitimate means of using that money.

[EnlightenedBulbasaur]

@pokemon_matt

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

As someone who is going to be sending the government nearly half a million dollars this year, I would understand why people would want to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

That sounds like terrible tax management, you should really use an accountant if you haven’t already. There are far more efficient ways to manage money to bring that tax bill down. No I don’t meant illegal tax avoidance, but legitimate means of using that money.

Like what?

As I’ve stated, I will indeed be using an accountant and I will try to pay the minimum that I legally owe.

But I’m curious as to how exactly you think I could avoid paying much less other than committing tax evasion / money laundering.

Spreading out the money over time wouldn’t make a particularly big difference, as the federal long-term collectibles capital gains tax is a flat 28% and for New York State and City the additional ~7% and ~4% collectibles capital gains taxes would barely change with your income level.

I don’t see how to actually avoid the vast majority of that tax legally.

I certainly hope I’m wrong and that an accountant has some good legal suggestions.

[EnlightenedBulbasaur]

@r2d287

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

As someone who is going to be sending the government nearly half a million dollars this year, I would understand why people would want to avoid paying capital gains taxes.

I had the chance to take substantial offers for many of my cards with cash, but I passed because I didn’t want to go down that path.

But it’s probably best not to publicly accuse people of planning to commit tax evasion.

I don’t even think an auditor would see a trade as blatant tax evasion in any stretch of the imagination. I didn’t mean to even insinuate that was the reason, I’m just pointing out one example. I’m also saying that in my eyes, that’s really a sale. Even though it’s a “trade”

How I meant to say it was.

If I don’t want to cash 900k out now. I can sell off as I need it, and pay the tax on each sale. So it lowers the hit. Better to sell one zard 1ed a year than all depending on where you live and when you bought the cards etc.

Kind of repeating the post from above, but again, I don’t think it makes a difference because the federal tax on long-term collectibles capital gains is a flat 28% and my state and local long-term collectibles capital gains taxes wouldn’t change much either, even if I spread out the money over time.

Ultimately the issue is whether you’re reporting the sales to the IRS or not.

Again… as far as I can tell. And I am certainly no expert. But I don’t hear any other particular suggestions here (that are legal) other than people saying talk to an accountant (which I will certainly do).

[pokemon_matt]

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

@pokemon_matt

That sounds like terrible tax management, you should really use an accountant if you haven’t already. There are far more efficient ways to manage money to bring that tax bill down. No I don’t meant illegal tax avoidance, but legitimate means of using that money.

As I’ve stated, I will be using an accountant and I will try to pay the minimum that I legally owe.

But I’m curious as to how exactly you think I could avoid paying much less other than committing tax evasion / money laundering?

Spreading out the money over time wouldn’t make a particularly big difference, as the federal long-term collectibles tax is a flat 28% and for New York State and City the additional ~7% and ~4% taxes would barely change with your income level.

I don’t see how to actually avoid the vast majority of that tax legally.

I certainly hope I’m wrong and that an accountant has some good legal suggestions.

Without delving too much into the world of financials, here’s a quick example:

A good accountant would recommend that you actually set up a limited “investment” company that handles the buying and selling of your cards. The purchases are offsetting the sales profit, but ultimately you’re only subject to corporation tax (21% in America I believe). It gets a lot more creative than that in terms of how you bring that profit down, for example giving a salary for yourself, at worst to cover the tax free allowance to allow you to get money out. There’s also expenses, bills (as yours WFH so energy, phone bills etc) and also equipment purchases (laptops, phones etc). You’d expect to pay half that 21% using the methods above (and more that accountants leverage) you can also defer earnings to another financial year to better leverage things as well. Adding a lump of that to a pension pot also means you don’t pay tax on that so another way to decrease the bill.

There are even more crazier ways than that (such as your pension buying a commercial property and your business paying rent to the pension company) but none of it is tax avoidance and none of it is illegal.

When I say a good accountant, I don’t just mean the bloke from down the road who uses spreadsheets. I mean an established company that is well versed in managing finances that stretch into the millions.

Pretty much all of that above is what I do and it saves me an incredible amount of money, perfectly legally.

[EnlightenedBulbasaur]

@pokemon_matt

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

As I’ve stated, I will be using an accountant and I will try to pay the minimum that I legally owe.

But I’m curious as to how exactly you think I could avoid paying much less other than committing tax evasion / money laundering?

Spreading out the money over time wouldn’t make a particularly big difference, as the federal long-term collectibles tax is a flat 28% and for New York State and City the additional ~7% and ~4% taxes would barely change with your income level.

I don’t see how to actually avoid the vast majority of that tax legally.

I certainly hope I’m wrong and that an accountant has some good legal suggestions.

Without delving too much into the world of financials, here’s a quick example:

A good accountant would recommend that you actually set up a limited “investment” company that handles the buying and selling of your cards. The purchases are offsetting the sales profit, but ultimately you’re only subject to corporation tax (21% in America I believe). It gets a lot more creative than that in terms of how you bring that profit down, for example giving a salary for yourself, at worst to cover the tax free allowance to allow you to get money out. There’s also expenses, bills (as yours WFH so energy, phone bills etc) and also equipment purchases (laptops, phones etc). You’d expect to pay half that 21% using the methods above (and more that accountants leverage) you can also defer earnings to another financial year to better leverage things as well. Adding a lump of that to a pension pot also means you don’t pay tax on that so another way to decrease the bill.

There are even more crazier ways than that (such as your pension buying a commercial property and your business paying rent to the pension company) but none of it is tax avoidance and none of it is illegal.

When I say a good accountant, I don’t just mean the bloke from down the road who uses spreadsheets. I mean an established company that is well versed in managing finances that stretch into the millions.

Pretty much all of that above is what I do and it saves me an incredible amount of money, perfectly legally.

Clearly this is an area of expertise of yours and I know nothing about this.

To be clear, I was planning on hiring a professional from an established company. The spreadsheet thing I can do well enough on my own.

In any case, I would assume everything you’re mentioning is a missed opportunity for me regardless? Unless you’re saying that one could retroactively create such a company after a sale (although 2/3rds of the money is PWCC money that I will not be getting until at least mid-January).

[pokemon_matt]

@EnlightenedBulbasaur

@pokemon_matt

Without delving too much into the world of financials, here’s a quick example:

A good accountant would recommend that you actually set up a limited “investment” company that handles the buying and selling of your cards. The purchases are offsetting the sales profit, but ultimately you’re only subject to corporation tax (21% in America I believe). It gets a lot more creative than that in terms of how you bring that profit down, for example giving a salary for yourself, at worst to cover the tax free allowance to allow you to get money out. There’s also expenses, bills (as yours WFH so energy, phone bills etc) and also equipment purchases (laptops, phones etc). You’d expect to pay half that 21% using the methods above (and more that accountants leverage) you can also defer earnings to another financial year to better leverage things as well. Adding a lump of that to a pension pot also means you don’t pay tax on that so another way to decrease the bill.

There are even more crazier ways than that (such as your pension buying a commercial property and your business paying rent to the pension company) but none of it is tax avoidance and none of it is illegal.

When I say a good accountant, I don’t just mean the bloke from down the road who uses spreadsheets. I mean an established company that is well versed in managing finances that stretch into the millions.

Pretty much all of that above is what I do and it saves me an incredible amount of money, perfectly legally.

Clearly this is an area of expertise of yours and I know nothing about this.

To be clear, I was planning on hiring a professional from an established company. The spreadsheet thing I can do well enough on my own.

In any case, I would assume everything you’re mentioning is a missed opportunity for me regardless? Unless you’re saying that one could retroactively create such a company after a sale (although 2/3rds of the money is PWCC money that I will not be getting until at least mid-January).

I’m not an accountant, but everything I mentioned is what I have been advised over the years for my companies.

In terms of being too late, you’re not as it’s usually tied to a company’s financial year, but your company doesn’t exist yet. I would advise that you do it as soon as you can though as you may only be able to claim back purchases/sales in the last year (from company formation). I don’t have experience on that part though in terms of backdating so I’m not exactly sure on timeframe, but I’d say you can definitely claim the PWCC stuff.