$250,000 Alpha Black Lotus PSA 10 confirmed sale on eBay

[kpod]

@smpratte

@sgbased, I think the better question is, how many sales will be shared moving forward? The public is always making assumptions off partial data. For example, did anyone hear about the 500k alpha lotus that sold privately? Or what if I never made that video about the private trade + cash deal?

In sports people don’t share information. Its held tightly to their chest. I think that is where we are headed. We are already there in a lot of ways. Therefore with less data, these market assumptions/predictions will be even less credible.

Everyone can tell you’re salty about this sale price, but trying to change the tune that Pokémon sales should go private so no one knows what’s going on is something else.

[fresco]

@kpod

@smpratte

@sgbased , I think the better question is, how many sales will be shared moving forward? The public is always making assumptions off partial data. For example, did anyone hear about the 500k alpha lotus that sold privately? Or what if I never made that video about the private trade + cash deal?

In sports people don’t share information. Its held tightly to their chest. I think that is where we are headed. We are already there in a lot of ways. Therefore with less data, these market assumptions/predictions will be even less credible.

Everyone can tell you’re salty about this sale price, but trying to change the tune that Pokémon sales should go private so no one knows what’s going on is something else.

Why should sales go private? What it is there to hide? Sure, some people value privacy, you can remain anonymous (like not posting your name in public) but the transaction should be well known to the public. This just helps the overall market.

[smpratte]

@kpod

@smpratte

@sgbased, I think the better question is, how many sales will be shared moving forward? The public is always making assumptions off partial data. For example, did anyone hear about the 500k alpha lotus that sold privately? Or what if I never made that video about the private trade + cash deal?

In sports people don’t share information. Its held tightly to their chest. I think that is where we are headed. We are already there in a lot of ways. Therefore with less data, these market assumptions/predictions will be even less credible.

Everyone can tell you’re salty about this sale price, but trying to change the tune that Pokémon sales should go private so no one knows what’s going on is something else.

Not at all. I genuinely couldn’t care less. The point of my response is to highlight people are making assumptions off partial data.

If there is any disappointment its the relentless immaturity and negativity in the “community”, like your comment. It disincentivizes people to share these sales. Which is a net loss for the hobby. Just like the trophy kangaskhan thread we had to lock because people were so pointlessly negative.

[surgenius]

@smpratte

@sgbased , I think the better question is, how many sales will be shared moving forward? The public is always making assumptions off partial data. For example, did anyone hear about the 500k alpha lotus that sold privately? Or what if I never made that video about the private trade + cash deal?

In sports people don’t share information. Its held tightly to their chest. I think that is where we are headed. We are already there in a lot of ways. Therefore with less data, these market assumptions/predictions will be even less credible.

Out of curiosity - Is this due to tax implications? Also, are you aware if you can do a 1031 exchange with collectible sales? If the answer is yes to taxes, then this is a no brainer.

[fourthstartcg]

Salt is a way of life

[sgpokecollect]

@smpratte, I’m not even asking any questions, it’s literally just a causal observation

There was a price paid in the 800k mark, now it has fallen to 250k mark, both are actual sales

One was much higher than the other. That’s pretty much my thought process.

Hiding data or not isn’t the point. The point is above are the two actual sales and one is lower than the other and also more recent. And I ask if I should therefore think more about the pattern here, if I should do something about parts of my collection that have increased 20x, or maybe buy alpha mtg now given jonandek sharing that prices have been lackluster.

Hopefully people here are not so salty that literally a casual observation of two price points doesn’t become some hide this show that blah blah thing

Idgaf about feelings. We are just being objective looking at hard data here. Unless I missed the memo that we are only allowed to discuss new record prices

Btw - if you paid 800k for that card, sorry to hear about the new price. You made a big bet and I always respect guts and conviction.

[surgenius]

@sgpokecollect

@smpratte , I’m not even asking any questions, it’s literally just a causal observation

There was a price paid in the 800k mark, now it has fallen to 250k mark, both are actual sales

One was much higher than the other. That’s pretty much my thought process.

Hiding data or not isn’t the point. The point is above are the two actual sales and one is lower than the other and also more recent. And I ask if I should therefore think more about the pattern here, if I should do something about parts of my collection that have increased 20x, or maybe buy alpha mtg now given jonandek sharing that prices have been lackluster.

Hopefully people here are not so salty that literally a casual observation of two price points doesn’t become some hide this show that blah blah thing

Idgaf about feelings. We are just being objective looking at hard data here. Unless I missed the memo that we are only allowed to discuss new record prices

Btw - if you paid 800k for that card, sorry to hear about the new price. You made a big bet and I always respect guts and conviction btw.

$250k is not new price. It is a data point on a graph that is irrelevant. Scott doesn’t care about the noise around him. Frankly, he probably leans more on the side of happy that it sold. Especially to youtuber, who specializes in marketing. But tell me this…

A card that there is a population of 2. Regardless if it is one of the most iconic cards in TCG. Regardless if it is signed by one of the most iconic artists in TCG. How would you EVER expect to acquire a card at its most recent sales point? insanity.

Seems to me that this is a pretty simple concept.

[casual]

@surgenius

@sgpokecollect

@smpratte , I’m not even asking any questions, it’s literally just a causal observation

There was a price paid in the 800k mark, now it has fallen to 250k mark, both are actual sales

One was much higher than the other. That’s pretty much my thought process.

Hiding data or not isn’t the point. The point is above are the two actual sales and one is lower than the other and also more recent. And I ask if I should therefore think more about the pattern here, if I should do something about parts of my collection that have increased 20x, or maybe buy alpha mtg now given jonandek sharing that prices have been lackluster.

Hopefully people here are not so salty that literally a casual observation of two price points doesn’t become some hide this show that blah blah thing

Idgaf about feelings. We are just being objective looking at hard data here. Unless I missed the memo that we are only allowed to discuss new record prices

Btw - if you paid 800k for that card, sorry to hear about the new price. You made a big bet and I always respect guts and conviction btw.

$250k is not new price. It is a data point on a graph that is irrelevant. Scott doesn’t care about the noise around him. Frankly, he probably leans more on the side of happy that it sold. Especially to youtuber, who specializes in marketing. But tell me this…

A card that there is a population of 2. Regardless if it is one of the most iconic cards in TCG. Regardless if it is signed by one of the most iconic artists in TCG. How would you EVER expect to acquire a card at its most recent sales point? insanity.

Seems to me that this is a pretty simple concept.

Whether or not you can expect it, thats exactly what happened. It traded hands at a massive discount off of the last sales price.

[surgenius]

@casual

@surgenius

$250k is not new price. It is a data point on a graph that is irrelevant. Scott doesn’t care about the noise around him. Frankly, he probably leans more on the side of happy that it sold. Especially to youtuber, who specializes in marketing. But tell me this…

A card that there is a population of 2. Regardless if it is one of the most iconic cards in TCG. Regardless if it is signed by one of the most iconic artists in TCG. How would you EVER expect to acquire a card at its most recent sales point? insanity.

Seems to me that this is a pretty simple concept.

Whether or not you can expect it, thats exactly what happened. It traded hands at a massive discount off of the last sales price.

No, that would be the case if SMPratte sold his. This one traded hands in 2007 for 9.5k.

edit: actually cant tell if that was the seller or not. However, my point being. You’re not getting Prattes at a loss and your not getting this dudes for the same price.

[casual]

@surgenius

@casual

Whether or not you can expect it, thats exactly what happened. It traded hands at a massive discount off of the last sales price.

No, that would be the case if SMPratte sold his. This one traded hands in 2007 for 9.5k.

edit: actually cant tell if that was the seller or not. However, my point being. You’re not getting Prattes at a loss and your not getting this dudes for the same price.

How is that relevant, do you value different certs of every single card differently? Would this card selling at 260k tomorrow be a record lotus PSA 10 sale?

If anything this copy should be more valuable because its auto actually has a grade.

[surgenius]

@casual

@surgenius

No, that would be the case if SMPratte sold his. This one traded hands in 2007 for 9.5k.

edit: actually cant tell if that was the seller or not. However, my point being. You’re not getting Prattes at a loss and your not getting this dudes for the same price.

How is that relevant, do you value different certs of every single card differently? Would this card selling at 260k tomorrow be a record lotus PSA 10 sale?

If anything this copy should be more valuable because its auto actually has a grade.

Goodness. 250k - 9.5k = 240.5k profit. 260k-250k = 10k. See the difference.

It will take more than a 10k profit to entice this buyer to sell a once in a lifetime card they just acquired.

[smpratte]

@sgpokecollect

Btw - if you paid 800k for that card, sorry to hear about the new price. You made a big bet and I always respect guts and conviction.

I honestly don’t care. The card can go back to 10k and it won’t bother me at all.

[casual]

@surgenius Purchase price is largely irrelevant. Nobody sees the last copy sell for 3x the price and says “Thats alright, Im already up 240k!”

[yz2428]

@fresco

@kpod

Everyone can tell you’re salty about this sale price, but trying to change the tune that Pokémon sales should go private so no one knows what’s going on is something else.

Why should sales go private? What it is there to hide? Sure, some people value privacy, you can remain anonymous (like not posting your name in public) but the transaction should be well known to the public. This just helps the overall market.

are we serious here? there are some very obvious reasons why people don’t want sales data to be public.

[jcincy101]

You can’t ever put an accurate valuation on an extremely low pop, high value item. Just can’t be done.

I have a hard enough time updating my website for PSA 10 1st ed neo discovery Holos…and those aren’t in the same hemisphere of rarity.

[smpratte]

@jcincy101

You can’t ever put an accurate valuation on an extremely low pop, high value item. Just can’t be done.

I have a hard enough time updating my website for PSA 10 1st ed neo discovery Holos…and those aren’t in the same hemisphere of rarity.

Preach!!

[yz2428]

@jcincy101

You can’t ever put an accurate valuation on an extremely low pop, high value item. Just can’t be done.

I have a hard enough time updating my website for PSA 10 1st ed neo discovery Holos…and those aren’t in the same hemisphere of rarity.

This is one of the questions that’s popping up a lot about NO RARITY holos in high PSA grades. People want to have an idea of “market price” but it simply doesn’t exist.

[surgenius]

@casual

@surgenius Purchase price is largely irrelevant. Nobody sees the last copy sell for 3x the price and says “Thats alright, Im already up 240k!”

Are you making my point or arguing against it. Cause no crap.

my point was a valuation does not equal price point and vice versa. Pratte valuing it 700k is logical. Even with the sale of the this at 250k. What is illogical is people valuing something at the latest sale when it comes to items with true rarity… If this was a pop 100, okay sure. 250k going rate.

I know 99% of you have watched his videos, pay for his patreon, etc… then why doesn’t this sink in? Thats like paying for tennis lessons but disregarding what the pro has to say and then arguing why you as an amateur know more.

[casual]

@surgenius

@casual

@surgenius Purchase price is largely irrelevant. Nobody sees the last copy sell for 3x the price and says “Thats alright, Im already up 240k!”

Are you making my point or arguing against it. Cause no crap.

my point was a valuation does not equal price point and vice versa. Pratte valuing it 700k is logical. Even with the sale of the this at 250k. What is illogical is people valuing something at the latest sale when it comes to items with true rarity… If this was a pop 100, okay sure. 250k going rate.

I know 99% of you have watched his videos, pay for his patreon, etc… then why doesn’t this sink in? Thats like paying for tennis lessons but disregarding what the pro has to say and then arguing why you as an amateur know more.

My only problem is you saying this “How would you EVER expect to acquire a card at its most recent sales point?”

Expecting the next copy to sell at less than the current price is not unheard of and is exactly what happened here.

Scott can and should value it at whatever he wants, he’s in no rush to sell.

[r2d287]

@jonandek

A few thoughts.

1. This price is still extremely high by overall historical standards in the hobby. I paid $32k for a quad Alpha Black Lotus at the end of 2013. That was considered a high price at that time. Prices in MtG had run up a LOT by late 2019 / early 2020.
2. MtG prices have now come down quite a bit off of their highs, and this sale is evidence of it.
3. A good friend of mine still owns the highest graded PSA Alpha set in the world and has tons of extra graded and raw alpha cards. He sells them from time to time. Values have not been meeting his expectations.
4. MtG is more of a BGS market than a PSA market. BGS cards with high subs tend to be the most desirable cards. I know that a quad 9.5 BGS alpha lotus sold for around $500k pre-COVID
5. Unless this is Steve Woziak’s card, he also purchased a PSA 10 signed copy which I thought he paid around $450k for. Maybe that’s where the $430k reference comes from? Did the Woz overpay at the top of the market? It’s not inconceivable.

Good gravy. Did you hold onto it?

I loved the buyers video by the way. At the end of the day, who cares what everyone thinks. The seller and buyer are happy. Armchair QBs will dice up everything about a transaction and find a way to spin it.