I don’t think the op is being pessimistic to claim that a lot more has become investment in this hobby. It is so nice to have e4 whenever I get overwhelmed by that feeling though. It’s so rare to have a group of the purest collectors all together where investment is so obviously not their top priority. It’s a rare gem.
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Yeah I think it’s leaned very heavily to the investment side too and that’s just because of the money side of things. But yes efour is a safe haven for collectors in my opinion
i came here to say basically this.
most simple collectors aren’t going to have much to say in a conversation like that, so they wont engage with it as much as people who have more of a stake in “the markets” because they have turned their hobby into a hustle as well.
i will say, many “investors”, flippers, whatever are avid collectors. they often have their personal collection which is completely separate from what they’re “keeping an eye on”.
the rest of us just want to buy more stuff for our collection and couldn’t care less about “the market” unless it effects the card we were trying to buy.
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I think after 2020 and Covid, the second boom for Pokemon invited a lot of loud voices. There are times when I bump into friends or strangers and am surprised at how many casual collectors there are. One of the benefits from these past few years is that it’s reduced the stigma of this type of hobby though of course there are exceptions.
I echo what others have said already - the loud voices are the ones talking about investment and prices. Collectors just tend to be quieter or like to share in communities or with likeminded folks. Sometimes they’re both. I look for the humble folks who haven’t let the idea of making money get to their head.
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It’s been well established that Pokemon isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, and the last Covid boom brought new collectors into it. They have their own generation that will be vintage later on. I think we’ll see a lot of fluctuation, but the fundamentals are always the same. Don’t listen to the noise and collect truly low pop ultra rare cards if you want to invest. I personally like to collect for the love of it and investing. If it falls flat later, I guess that’s the risk we all take.
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Agree with a lot of what’s been said. Social media will give you a heavy selection bias towards investors/entrepreneurs. For every loud individual, with social media as their megaphone, there are a multitude of quiet collectors. Pay attention to the quiet ones.
The Pokemon “investing” spectrum is an interesting thing…
On one end of the spectrum you’ll find the people you are referring to. They have no interest in collecting and are only buying product because they think it will make them rich.
On the other end of the spectrum you will find collectors who play mental gymnastics with themselves to justify purchasing whatever they want at any price because they view everything Pokemon as an “investment”.
The silent majority falls between these two extremes.
They collect what they enjoy but also treat their purchases as a “pseudo investment” simply because it becomes financially irresponsible not to do so after a certain price point.
They have a personal collection that they have no intention of selling but will sometimes leverage their knowledge of the hobby to make “plays” purely for financial gain.
But at the end of the day most people in the hobby are collectors. The money aspect is just impossible to avoid today.
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I flip burgers and collect patties
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This is an interesting topic, I don’t think collecting/investing/buying and selling should be any way exclusive in this hobby. You might invest in a card but still love the card and collecting gives you enjoyment and satisfaction. In fact it might give you the opportunity that something like buying stocks in oil might not, a physical item that you can look at and enjoy and might give you nostalgic feelings and even crazier than that improve you life if you have to sell it further down the line, or give you the opportunity to buy another card that you can also enjoy!
I started back up collecting cards as a adult in 2013, in the early years when I collected it felt like there was quite a negative sentiment towards people that brought and sold cards and they were often branded as “flippers” and not “true collectors”. At the time I didn’t want to be known as a flipper so I just brought and held most of my cards and never really brought to invest or sell on. In hind sight this seems now quite silly to me. I’ve never been in any highly paid job and mostly the collection I’ve built is because I was lucky enough to have gotten in early when cards were much cheaper. However, I think I could have obtained some more “grail” cards and completed more collection goals if I had decided to actually buy and sell cards seriously, this is actually good business not just flipping! If you look at some of the collectors in the hobby with the best knowledge, collections and connections it’s often people that actually made this there full time job years ago (for example TCAgaming/smpratte etc). Buying and selling regularly gives you so much more of a better understanding of the market and improves your knowledge hugely, you also discover new cards to you that are really cool that you might not have known about if you are focused on meeting specific collection goals (mine originally was collecting only Charizard cards for example). The past year I started my own business buying and selling cards alongside working full time, I found it so refreshing and love learning more about cards I never really looked at before like the japanese vending series which has some incredible art, plus now im actually making some extra cash from the hobby i love!
To summarise, I think we shouldn’t pigeon hole anyone into having to collect/invest in any specific way and actually diversity is good and often offers opportunities. There will be some people in the hobby that are shade city but mostly people are just enjoying it in their own way and all power to them!
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It’s certainly an interesting topic and one that isn’t exclusive to Pokemon cards.
I’m of the belief that liquidity is always a positive, the shady people that chase it are an unavoidable by-product.
My opinion certainly comes from a place of ignorance as I don’t have friends in the hobby and don’t have the ability to travel to events etc. so am basing it off what I see on YouTube and what is pushed. I am very glad to hear the majority of people here believe that most people collect for the love of it.
It’s obvious the collector side of the hobby has been heavily influenced by people that have a huge love for it long before liquidity was around and the hobby seems to have strong enough foundations so that new entrants have extremely positive influences to look up to, if they search in places outside of mainstream social media.
It’s especially interesting how error cards are viewed as a positive thing which must come from early collectors such as gem mint, rusty and sm.
It also seems the market has many inefficiencies, which is expected early on and which benefits people with greater knowledge. Hopefully places such as E4 are around forever so that people get to feel the love that exists for the hobby, the kindness that is shown to new people and the wealth of knowledge that exists here.
The lack of gatekeeping is extremely refreshing and a beautiful thing to experience. I’m grateful to everyone here for that gift E4 bestows on us noobs.
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As am I, but you’ve mentioned liquidity a few times and I’m not sure I fully understand how you are applying it relative to Pokemon cards?
Maybe that’s because this topic was split out from another thread so I apologize if I’m missing something.
Just to clarify my perspective…liquidity for me is the cash in my bank account that earn from my job that has nothing to do with Pokemon.
I consider everything other than cash as “less liquid”. Eg my 401k my IRA, the equity in my house etc.
At the very bottom of that less liquid list is my Pokemon card collection. Whether it be sealed product, graded singles etc.
I purchase Pokemon cards because I enjoy them. However, the financial aspects of collectibles in general are difficult to avoid in todays market so it’s something that has to be taken into consideration when making purchasing decisions.
I don’t look down on anyone who is trying to use Pokemon as a means of primary income whether it be through selling error cards, trophy cards or sealed product or what have you.
I just try to enjoy the thing I love. If It makes me money in the future than that’s just icing on the cake.
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Liquidity is how fast you can covert an asset to cash at close to market value. For example stocks are highly liquid because you can sell them in seconds at market rate.
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I’m referencing liquidity in the broader market sense. Just having more people buying and selling and the ability to buy and sell quickly compared to pre booms where I’d assume finding the cards you wanted to buy as well as finding buyers for the cards you were selling would’ve been much harder.
I wish I was talking in personal terms as I’d love some more liquidity haha. I don’t really look at this as an investment, although I realise if you’re reckless you can lose a lot of cash.
Pokemon cards are an enjoyable use of disposable income for the most part, possibly becoming a more concrete investment for trophy cards etc.
I do appreciate how people view them as an investment and certainly agree there can be value created from “investing” in this space.
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I find e4 to be majority collectors, which i like to deal with, hence why i all always on here.
I thoroughly despise investors in a hobby
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I think I probably represent something close to the average collector nowadays.
Over the years I’ve spent a fair bit of my disposable income adding to my collection. I hope its value doesn’t go to zero. It would be nice if it went up. I guess in that sense I’m “investing” or speculating.
The fact that the ostensible value of my collection (liquidity aside) hasn’t gone down is definitely part of why I keep going. However, aside from the odd trade, I haven’t sold any of my collection and don’t currently intend to (if I had more disposable time on the other hand it might be a different story).
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@sherotcg repent your flipper ways 
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I feel that since 2020/2021, the investment side has definitely receded in terms of hype & discussion. However, I still think there’s a lot of “quiet accumulation” going on as well. Myself and many others have been taking advantage of the larger discounts since the Covid era and there’s been some much better deals in the vintage space the past while (especially English/WOTC).
At the same time, there’s also been continued growth in certain cards/sets from all eras and languages depending where you look. Pre-2020 Japanese has continued to do very well and from the investment perspective some of them really paid off for some people, particularly last year during the surge it had. Even recently there’s been several record breaking auctions on certain singles despite the economy and many other macro factors at play.
So anyway, I personally like to treat things more like a hobby than investment these days as I don’t like to speculate too much. All things considered, Pokemon has held up quite nicely and remains an enjoyable hobby for many. By having lower expectations for the investment side I find I stay more interested and I don’t regret my larger purchases. If they rise in value over time, that’s great. If I break even after a year or 2, I’m happy with that as well because I can always cash out and put the money towards something else if I need to.
I think it’s best to consider the investment aspect as a bonus and not to make it your main motivation to acquire a certain card. As long as you buy in to market declines or during ‘normal’ market conditions and not FOMO into excessive hype, you’re probably going to do fine with almost any card(s) you buy, at least in my experience 
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